Being a wife is a different thing from being a mother. And that's the whole point.

I will probably do a post reminding everyone of this, but I will not host these discussions unless we're both civial and respectful. Not just fighting to be right.

I should have included in my post that most married women in the 1800's still didn't work outside the home back then, dream job or not.

The ones working outside the home were usually single.

If you look at the web site I posted, once a woman was married, if she still needed to earn money, she did it from home – having a cottage industry on the side or taking in boarders.

Back then, most families produced a lot of their own goods and sold the excess, and married women were very involved with that.

So they were still home to hold their children's hand. There really were very few married women with children working outside the home. They were able to work at their cottage industries and still be home to supervise their children.

Interestingly, whenever they have done studies on modern mothers, they often find that mothers with part-time jobs are happier than mothers with no jobs or mothers with full-time jobs.

Perhaps the ones with part-time jobs really do achieve that elusive balance we all want.

And finally, another thing we discussed last night is that somehow there is this idea that you have to choose between your children and your dreams – one has to be first. And if you pick your dreams, that means you won't meet your children's needs. But really, they are, and should be, two different spheres of your life. You have your kids, you love them, you take care of them, they are very very very important to you. Then, separately, you have your dreams and your goals, and that's an important part of who you are too. We don't do our kids a favor when we make less of ourselves. Our kids need our fullest, richest deepest selves, and that means ourselves with dreams and passions. They need roll models, not hovering parents (and NO, that doesn't mean I'm against staying at home with your kids. AT ALL. You can be a stay at home mom with rich dreams and goals, and a hovering working parent with none).

Now, that's a lot of talk about parenting for a non parenting blog, and a post not about parenting. It makes me a bit sad that this is still such a loaded issue for women that we can't even talk about being a wife without talking about being a mother, and have to fight for the idea of being allowed to still be ourselves. Sigh.

the goal of life is to catch a man. it's the end-all, be-all.

if you see the wedding this way… as the prime goal of existence, the happy ending before the credits… of course you'll overemphasize the day, and then let yourself fall apart thereafter. you've achieved your goal. you have no reason to take care of yourself, no subsequent dreams to pursue.

the truth is we need to acknowledge that becoming a mother requires a certain amount of self-sacrifice. but there are limits, and should be parameters. getting the kids ready in the morning is going to be a bigger priority than spending that extra time on your hair.

but how do you want to impact your children, and in turn, society?

i want any little girls i may have to grow up knowing that they can be attractive and put effort into the way they look, and still be intelligent, successful, professional, as well as compassionate, sacrificial and so on. i want them to know that a wedding isn't THE dream, but the beginning of a long succession of dreams and goals made easier (not inhibited!) by having a loving partner and family.

that will be part of my "self-sacrifice."

- a women's studies teacher

Anyway history aside the fact remains that children have grown and prospered for the majority of history without having mummy to hold their hand all day, without the helicopter parenting. Luckily thanks to lots of amazing women, we're now able to pursue any job we want. Definitely an improvement on 200 years ago. On the flip side though now were guilt-tripped into thinking we're neglecting our children by taking up those opportunities. I think that's crap.

It wasn't until the end of the 1800s that middle-class single women began taking jobs as shop clerks and such.

Of course, I'm being overly simple here.

This is interesting info about women working in the 19th century -

http://www.answers.com/topic/women-and-the-work-force

One comment I'd like to respond to though was made by Vanessa:
"She'd rather spend her time/enegry/money on her kids & husband, making sure they're cared for first. And I dont think its a conscious effort at all. Its instinct. Most animals will go cold or hungry before they let their children suffer.
This image of motherhood is a big part of the problem. Not spending "her time/enegry/money on her kids & husband, making sure they're cared for first", is NOT tantamount to a woman letting her child go hungry. Like Peonies, I think this idea of perfection, particularly in motherhood, is scary and wrong. I agree that it's instinctual to want your children to survive, I don't think it's instinct that tells us that a $1500 pram is more important than personal training sessions…

If you look back over the history of humans, the idea of a stay-at-home, every-minute-of-the-day-watching-the-child mother is a short lived priveledged role. Step back a couple of hundred years and the only women who could afford not to work were rich enough not to have to care for their own children. Go back another few hundred and tribal societies saw women go out and work while the oldies looked after the kids.

Somewhere in the very recent past someone decided that children are neglected unless they have their own bedroom complete with PC, DVD, playstation and a mummy at their disposal 24/7. Sounds to me like the perfect way to breed a generation of narcisists…

I'm not sure, on the whole, many people getting married give a lot of thought to what they really want their marriage (or their wedding) to be. I think it is easier, *in the short-term*, to accept the societal idea of marriage than to tear it down and build your own marriage from scratch. Or perhaps you resign yourself to the ball-and-chain mentality to keep from taking responsibility for not living your passions.

Just some thoughts…

@T-Bone
Indeed. Indeed.