If we had a Team Practical book club, this month we'd be reading The Meaning of Wife by Anne Kingston (thanks commenters).
I'm letting you know, because if you want to snag a copy, go do it, so then you can debate me when we chat about it later. I have some problems with the book (I adore Nigella Lawson and her smart, sensual cookbooks, thanks) but it's talk about the 'wife gap' - the gap in our cultural conversation between bride and mom, is worth a lot more discussion. Because even once we are moms, I hope that we'll be allowed to define ourselves as self first, wife second, mom third (as eloquently discussed at Project Subrosa).
But in the comments back here, you guys got me thinking: how do we think about the marriages we want? One of you asked me if I was going to re-name this site A Practical Marriage, and my reaction was, "No! My big fear is of having a practical marriage." The thing is, I have a practical disposition. I'm a saver not a spender and I like to drive the speed limit. So I'm worried of falling into the trap of doing all the marriage 'shoulds,' or at least the shoulds of my family and particular culture. I'm worried about saving up a down payment right away, but never seeing Italy. So for me, I tell myself that I want a brave marriage. Brave is what will push me to make sure we're living the lives we want, or need to live, and not just living out our shoulds.
But what about you guys? What kind of marriage are you afraid you'll have if you don't pay attention? What kind of marriage do you really deeply want? I'm interested in the way we think about this, separately and collectively. I'm also pushing us to constructively disagree here. I think its laudable to want a practical marriage, and I could really learn from someone who did. I also don't feel (for whatever reason) pressure to have a perfect marriage, but really empathise with those feeling that pressure.
What are you dreaming of? What are your fears?
I know it might sound clichĂŠ, but I'm mortally afraid I'll turn into my mother, and my husband into his father.
Don't get me wrong, both my mom and his dad have good qualities, but my mom didn't pursue her career after she had babies. She just stayed at home (I'm guessing partly because it was easier). I want to have the courage to always question who I am, and always push to reinvent myself, redefine, reassess the way we are living as a married couple.
I think it's so easy to slip into customs – and potentially dangerous to your relationship.
November 16, 2009 4:30 am
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I like your use of the word brave to describe the kind of marriage that you want.
I too fear becoming practical – for me it has connotations of fusty and dull. Not that I want every day to be exciting per se, I don't think I could live with that long-term, but I want the kind of parternership where we both feel supported and encouraged to reach for our goals, separately and together. Where it's OK to go out on a scary limb because you know you have the other one egging you on, and holding on to the rope so they can catch you if you fall.
And above all, I want a loving marriage. Contentment.
The book looks interesting. I think I'll join the book club :)
November 16, 2009 5:13 am
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I want to have a fun marriage. I never want us to have a stagnant day to day life. I am ok with being "Practical" but you can have that with fun added in. I guess my major fear is that we won't be as in love and passionate about each other after we are married.
I guess I have never really though about this before and I too may be joining the book club!
November 16, 2009 5:40 am
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Hm… I know that my fiance and I will change and morph as people after we are married, and my hope is that we change in complimentary ways – WITH each other. My fear is that we won't. I do think we can make the choice to be the kind of people who change in the first way, not the second.
I guess I also fear NOT turning into my mother. She has been my picture of an amazing woman, wife, and mother. Even though she didn't pursue her career after having kids, she made us into her career, even home-schooling us for a couple of years (which was a lot of hard work… for her). As kids, we watched her constantly reinvent and reevaluate. She now runs her own wholesale handcraft business and is back at school getting her graduate degree. I think she's awesome. I know I won't make the same choices she did, but I hope to carry her perspective with me.
November 16, 2009 6:04 am
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like many women of our generation, i fear my parents' divorce. i distinctly remember my mother telling me that she and my father would never get divorced – not because they seemed in danger of it, not in the slightest, but out of the blue. it stuck with me. imagine my surprise when my dad called, a decade later when i was out of high school and college and living with my husband-to-be, and told me that he wasn't coming home. their subsequent divorce was fresh, and bitterly painful, when i got married; one of the reasons we had a "sweetheart table" at our reception was so that i didn't have to bring my parents together at a table. ditto with walking myself down the aisle.
to say that the not-forever bits of forever echoed in my thoughts as i formalized forever back then would be the understatement of the century. i don't shy from arguments with joe, and i don't fear divorce in my marriage. i marry him again, in a small but significant way, every time i let the heat of a fight drain out of me. i know what a marriage looks like with blood in its mouth, and i have no taste for it. my point, i suppose, is that those of us whose families are shaped like mine is have a certain kind of oomph in their partnership. there but for our grace we go.
November 16, 2009 6:05 am
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I enjoy the practical. If the practical involves planning our lives together, the day-to-day and the long run. It's then that I get the sense most clearly that this is my partner, this is who I get to walk through life with. But if it wasn't fun, it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying. We have so much fun together! And it's our sense of humor that helps us through the tough moments and make the easier ones so meaningful to me.
I am afraid that I will also fall into old family ways. When we have kids I'm afraid I won't pursue a career. That won't make either of us happy. But on the other hand, I think a break in working is a gift that I may be lucky enough to enjoy. And potentially a wonderful opportunity for my family as well as me personally. I guess we need to continue to evaluate, think outside the familiar, and challenge ourselves.
November 16, 2009 6:07 am
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My fiance and I have always agreed that each other needs to come first to make our marriage everything we want it to be. It may sound selfish and cold to say that my husband is more important than my kids (I love kids and can't wait to have them), but I feel that the best thing I could do for my kids would be to have a loving and healthy relationship with their dad. To do that, he'll be my priority and I'll be his.
Both sets of our parents did that with each other and we're proud to say that they're still happily married. It breaks my heart to see couples say "it's all about the kids, our kids are the most important," in the midst of a divorce. I'm not even married yet so I am no expert on marriage, but I know for us, we'll work on putting each other first. In a world so big, we all need someone that will put our happiness first.
p.s. can't wait to read this book!
November 16, 2009 6:51 am
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Well then. As a side note, beware your children. Beware their blue eyes. Beware their tummies. Beware their progressive grace. To those who least expect its teeth, motherhood comes as a wolf in the night. Through no fault of the babies, the force of love doesn't lie with them. It might be waiting in your heart. Maybe not. It doesn't happen universally. But prepare yourselves now. Just in case. If you need them to live at number 3 on the list, that is. Which might be necessary for this marriage schema you are building to stand.
November 16, 2009 6:55 am
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I too want a "brave marriage." I fear losing myself. I know that my new husband will always push me, but once kids come into the picture, I don't want to be just a mom. I want to be so much more! I want to still be me, only better, and I know my goals will change, but I don't want to lose sight of myself. I see women out there that become moms, and it is all about the kids, and they aren't happy and have no clue why.
November 16, 2009 6:58 am
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My fears are similar to many things written here, but the biggest is growing apart through the years…losing the excitement of being together that you have right after getting married to the monotony of being together for years and years.
I always remind myself that all relationships in life require work to keep them going, and I know as long as we keep this in mind everything will be fine.
We were married August 29 and will have been together four years on New Years so things are still fresh to me. Sometimes he does or says something that reminds me there is so much we still have to learn about each other, and I love that!
Keep up the great work Meg…I love where you are taking things around here!
November 16, 2009 7:03 am
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I want a committed marriage. But at the same time I want there to be a lightness to it. Learning how to balance these two things.
November 16, 2009 7:07 am
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Team Brave all the way!
November 16, 2009 7:09 am
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Love, love, love that book. Just saying.
I want fun, commitment, and laughter. I also want someone to comfort me, stand by me, and support me.
November 16, 2009 7:29 am
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I picked this book up shortly after you started the discussion on wife, and to be honest, I really like it so far. I'm not too far into though, but I think the points it brings up are very valid.
AND some of the facts/statics she shares are really interesting. (My favorite was Lucy Stone, the first woman to keep her maiden name in 1855. I had no idea it was so long ago.)
November 16, 2009 7:32 am
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Meg, I love this post and everyone's comments so much.
I am most afraid of a marriage where we forget how madly in love we are, and take each other for granted, and slip into predicted ways, and stop having adventures together. I want a marriage where we make each other laugh everyday, and it is still just as exciting to make the other person laugh.
November 16, 2009 7:44 am
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i don't feel the need to have a "perfect" marriage, as long as it's one that works for me/him and makes us feel complete. it's way too easy to get caught up in what others want for you or think you should be doing, and not what you really want. i've always tried to be someone who's done what i've wanted, not what other people think i should be doing.
my greatest fear is thinking that everything's fine, and then waking up one day and realizing that you've grown apart and you don't have anything in common anymore, and the love is gone. it's a fear, but i don't know if that will actually happen. i'm a counselor, so i have a tendency to actively try to work on these things anyway.
November 16, 2009 7:55 am
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"I'm worried about saving up a down payment right away, but never seeing Italy. So for me, I tell myself that I want a brave marriage."
Exactly. Last night I sat in the courtyard of our apartment complex with a our budget in my lap thinking… My mind is too far ahead of us. Live in the now. Ask off work, go to Italy, Guatemala, Big Sur. Do the things we said we'd do and save for the down payment in smaller installments.
With him in grad school and one salary between us we often find ourselves waiting for August 2010. I wrote an ode to August 2010 last night actually. I'm afraid our relationship will be defined by anticipation of the next step, instead of being present with one another.
I'm so happy to have these comments from other women. I'll sneak a few more reads of them throughout the work day. My partner and I are not married but plan to be in the next few years. Every so often I bring up that we might consider getting married if the dollar falls more (he's from the UK), or for a bigger tax refund or for health insurance for him. It's … disgusting of me. He's in tune enough to know I wouldn't want that either. He's told me he won't be proposing to me on ticker tape. When did I let Money become the third person in our relationship?
(Glad you picked up the book. I agree there are parts of her reflections on Wifey, I'm not too keen on. So I look forward to our book club discussion. Can't wait for YOUR first book!)
November 16, 2009 8:04 am
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As a few others have said, I'm afraid of losing the passion and desire we have now. I remember when I was little seeing married couples who never showed any physical affection or even sat near each other at parties or other events. Even then, it made me so sad.
I've been married a little over two years, and we still very much want to be near each other all the time. I hope I can still say that at 10, 15, 20 years and beyond.
November 16, 2009 8:16 am
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I'm a fiercly independent woman and
I love my fiance and have a deep and profound respect for him but when it comes to children I feel like I'm in the minority when I say that WE only want one child and WE want to devote our lives to raising that child together the best we can. WE want that child to be the first priority.
I see my future sister-in-law who has just divorced her husband and father of her son, and I see why their marriage sadly came to an end. They each put themselves before their marriage or their child. This problem continues today and now it seems that they are missing their young single lives instead of concentrating on making sure that their son doesn't feel the intense strain of having divorced parents.
I want SUPPORT.
I want the kind of marriage where I feel like everything that I do, he does too. Whether that be taking a year off of work to finish my schooling, or taking out a big loan to pay of his degree, we are doing it together.
I want the kind of marriage where I won't be made to feel guilty for staying home with my child and running my business out of the house instead of going out into the workforce.
I want the kind of husband that sticks up for me and defends my decisions, actions, attitudes because I am his WIFE, his partner, his forever.
This discussion is so great. I'm ALL ABOUT marriage discussions. Weddings are pretty, but centerpieces and dresses are fleeting. Those vows, that marriage is FOREVER and much more important to me than color schemes.
November 16, 2009 8:30 am
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I have always loved your practical outlook on weddings and marriage. I find myself in a different camp than you, but really appreciate you sharing your side.
For me, though I love my fiance to death, I was never really raised to think that marriage was a necessary step in proving your love for each other. I would be fine making a commitment to each other to be honest and kind and to put each other first for the rest of our lives. We have traveled together, been crazy together acted immature together and grown up together.
When we talk about things like kids is where I become more traditional. To me, marriage is the first step towards creating a family, and I like to think of it as that. For me and my non-traditional upbringing, the idea of creating a family is brave enough.
For you, I think that your whole outlook on marriage is such a romantic one in that it really isn't about starting a family. You are already living out a brave marriage just by choosing to get married for love alone.
I wish you tons of fun exploring the world together and at your own pace. I think the future of your blog shouldn't be defined in how to match throw pillows, nor should you become a travel blog. I think what is fascinating is the journey to becoming a grown-up and learning how to maintain your independence while being a good partner.
I look forward to seeing all you do!
November 16, 2009 8:39 am
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Wow. Alison, I'm going to print that out and post it somewhere in our home. That is such a great example of what marriage is about!
November 16, 2009 8:43 am
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Okay, one more thing and I promise I will stop commenting! There was a great article in the November issue of San Francisco Magazine by Diana Kapp called Mother of All Recessions. Though some of it I don't agree with it falls in line perfectly with this discussion.
November 16, 2009 8:52 am
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I want a marriage where both of us are wildly supportive of each other. Where we push each other to the best of our abilities.
I worry that at some point, one of us will remain the supportive one, while the other ones stops encouraging the supportive partner to keep reaching and growing. I don't want to take a backseat to my fiance, and I don't want him to do the same for me.
I also worry about fighting the way my parents did. When I was little I wished for them to divorce. They never did, and I feel they'd both be so much happier on their own. Sigh, I don't want my kids to wish their parents were divorced. I need to learn constructive arguing habits, since I had such a bad model growing up.
November 16, 2009 8:58 am
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I think KatieF totally hit the nail on the head for me. I'm most afriad of getting too far ahead of ourselves – of focusing on our future instead of living our present together. Even before we were married, my relationship with my husband was primarily long-distance (we are even long-distance now – he's currently deployed to Afghanistan). So we got in the habit early of "looking forward" to our future together, of what our lives will be like once he's out of the Army, of all the things we've been wanting to do together for the last 5 years. But I'm afraid that because we've relied on that point of view for so long, that it will be a hard one to shake. What's to stop us from looking ahead to buying a house? To starting a family? To saving money for our reitirement, etc, etc? And don't get me wrong, these are all very valid things to look forward to and to plan out. I'm just worried we will forget to LIVE each day while we work towards that future. To appreciate each other and our partnership each day.
November 16, 2009 9:33 am
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My fear: a complacent marriage.
My dream: an aware, supportive marriage.
November 16, 2009 9:44 am
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@Lily
No, I don't think marraige is about starting a family with kids, I think it's about starting a family with us. But! I'm about the least romantic person in the world. I don't belive in true love, just partnership and work. And later, a bigger family. :)
@Alison
I think culturally you're in the majority, and you'll have tons of support! Which is excellent.
November 16, 2009 9:54 am
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I love the comments and the sentiment of your original post, Meg. I too, worry about the kind of marriage I may slide into. And that is my fear – just sliding into anything. We've spent the last two years building a house (like, with our own hands on our own nail-guns) and I want us to spend just as much energy building our marriage. But building takes patience, planning, patience, thoughtfulness, patience, and time. And at the end of a long day of work, grad school, and home building, sometimes its easier just to slide. So, here's to finding the energy to keep building, even if we make only millimeters of progress at a time.
November 16, 2009 10:04 am
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Although my parents are still together and happy as ever (they're like teenagers with the way they're all over each other) I don't really have any examples of family growing old together….both my grandfathers died young and left my grandmothers to raise the children alone. That's honestly my biggest fear of marriage…not that we'll divorce…but that I'll be left without him.
My greatest practical fears are of becoming a couple that has nothing in common…nothing to talk about…and a couple that doesn't respect each other. I'm also afraid that one day we'll wake up and realize we're nothing more than roommates. I want a marriage filled with laughter, passion, adventure and love. I feel very confident my fiance and I can make that happen and I'm excited to get started! :)
November 16, 2009 10:08 am
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I very much want to put into words my fears and dreams, and I'm not sure I have.
My parents are divorced… and I'm glad that they are. They were never good for each other, but they're wonderful people on their own. My grandparents are all still alive and together, but both of their marriages kind of terrify me. My paternal grandparents seem to have never gotten along, but they play their husband/wife roles very well. My maternal grandparents, on the other hand, have a wonderful, supportive, loving friendship — but my grandmother has had affairs with women and has told folks that she never loved my grandfather. I think she would have been gay, had she come of age in a different time.
I have a few aunts in lesbian partnerships and aunts and uncles in partnerships (not marriages, interestingly enough), that I look up to as loving, supportive, brave relationship role models… but none of them have kids. I'm a little terrified that children ruin marriages… I haven't seen a marriage, in my own life, that hasn't been destroyed once there were children involved.
But I want children. Really badly. We talk about it all the time. We both yearn for it pretty intensely. And we both have the same fears about what happens to a marriage after children get involved: my wife doesn't have any relationship role models either.
I guess that is my greatest fear… that my marriage and our future children will be incompatible.
November 16, 2009 10:18 am
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I'm so pleased you've promoted this book! I finished it a few weeks ago, (a bridal shower gift from my MOH – Thanks KatieF!) and couldn't put it down. I think it was the perfect thing for my post-wedding feelings of "who am I? what have I done?" that I think are kind of natural at this point. It's nice to know that the "feeling of wife" is something a lot of people experience.
November 16, 2009 10:21 am
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I don't think there is anything wrong with being practical in marriage, it just can't be only practical, at least not for me. A purely practical marriage reminds me too much of a "marriage of convenience." My fiance and I will probably have our more practical times. But we want to always maintain the essence and romance of our "usness," and our own individual personalities and interests.
For example one Sunday's Alex usually watches football (fantasy football is his second love) I'm not a huge football fan, and I usually do my own thing Sunday afternoons. But if we are both in the apartment we play our own version of football on a few of the commercials which involves diving on our bed with a stuffed puppy. My point is I want us to keep our love of life and playful love of each other no matter how practical we have to be about life sometimes.
November 16, 2009 10:30 am
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I'm totally with KatieF. I fear that one of my biggest fears is already rearing its ugly head.
Now, how do I make money NOT be the third person in the relationship?
(I'm naturally a bigtime planner. He naturally is not.)
My parents have an exquisitly happy marriage, and have accrued reasonable wealth over the years. (Though they were flat broke at my age.) I have seen how monitary flexibility has offered them experiences and opportunities that have been really good for them. I've seen how having plenty of money makes things (so many things!) easier.
And so I've come to want that for us. The freedom that comes with financial stability. But keeping that desire in balance with my desire to be personally fulfilled career-wise, and my desire to have grand adventures, near and far, with my partner… that's where i fear falling woefully short.
November 16, 2009 10:30 am
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My fears have to do with struggles we have already had. I fear that when life gets more stressful, which it will since we both want kids, that my husband will pull away and we will lose our connection. He does that when he is stressed and I have to remind him to come back to me but I am afraid that one day that won't work, that he won't want to. I fear being too practical, as I am also a very practical person. Our goal is to buy a house and we are putting off many things to do that, which is fine since it is an agreed upon goal, but I don't want us to lose sight of what we enjoy and give into the burden of trying to "make it" in somewhere as demanding and pressure filled as the Silicon Valley. I fear that when we have kids we will fail to find time for each other. That day to day life will overwhelm our love for each other and it will end up being all about routine, getting from point A to point B.
The thing that let's me put these fears in a little box and largely not worry about them is that I have talked about all of this with my husband. We are both aware of what we need to do to make this relationship work and both willing to have the hard conversations when needed. We haven't been married long but we have been together for nearly 5 years and we have been through job losses, serious health issues, living with my in-laws, my going back to school, and a few other things that make me comfortable in my knowledge that our love for each other acts as the foundation and the work is something that we are happy to do.
November 16, 2009 10:36 am
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Brave marriage, I like that Meg. I like it a lot.
I want a marriage where we can make the decisions that are best for us, regardless of the outside voices. Where we build our family in the way that most pleases us, but also stretches us. I like being challenged, and he does that for me. I think I do that for him, I want our family to pushed and stretched and to grow.
I fear becoming stagnant. I fear the children I hope to have looking at me one day and wondering if I'm happy (like I do my mom). I fear the shoulds, like houses and two cars and a yard that requires a lawn mower. I fear the loss of dreams and goals, for myself and for us as a pair, because "once you have kids, you can't do that."
I want us to be seen as independent from each other, but stronger for the pair we make so that we are the strong basis for the awesome family that's full of the laughter, love and adventure that we deserve.
November 16, 2009 10:41 am
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Someone mentioned that what they fear most is a complacent marriage. I think that word sums it up perfectly.
So what do I fear in our marriage? I fear falling so much into a routine we don't even realize we have one. I fear getting off work every day and coming home to this: He takes care of the dog, I take care of dinner. He does the dishes, I start the laundry. He turns on the tv, I grab the laptop.
There's nothing wrong with that routine in and of itself. It's practical. I love cooking. The dog obeys him way better than me. But I want to remain aware of what we do. I want to cook dinner because I enjoy trying new recipes, not because it's expected and an obligation. I want to him to choose to wash the dishes out of love and a feeling of partnership, not assume he has to take care of them because that's the habit we've fallen into.
Now I cherish these little everyday things of life. Ways we partner together to take care of necessities, things we do together. But I fear letting those things become the big things. Mindlessly letting them run our lives. I want an intentional marriage. One that is brave, courageous, self aware. One where we challenge each other to do new things, even hard things, because in the end those are the things we will be proud of. I want a marriage that is anything but complacent.
November 16, 2009 10:43 am
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I think I'm mostly afraid of being too practical. I'm not very romantic and I even find myself dreaming about practical things! I want to be more spontaneous, less stuck on what I need to do and more on what we CAN do. Fortunately (sometimes!), my husband and I are nearly opposite that way. I hope that we push each other to find the right blend for us of practical and not.
November 16, 2009 10:46 am
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I want a partnership, a symbiotic relationship where we feed and nurture each other. I'm afraid that this is something that is easily knocked off balance by work, money, family, and other external pressures. I'm afraid I'll end up sacrificing too much of myself.
November 16, 2009 10:53 am
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I fear having the kind of marriage where the husband is perceived as an oaf; a foil for the wife. Where I get together with my girlfriends and we all give each other "knowing looks" about the silly/stupid/etc. things our husbands do.
I'd also like to avoid the 'women are crazy!' 'men are stupid!' dynamic. That's not so much about marriage as it is about relationships and it's never been a part of our relationship to date. I hope it never will be.
November 16, 2009 11:22 am
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I don't have time right now to read all the comments, but LPC's made me want to say this . . .
At nearly the same age as LPC, I know where she's coming from. I knew lots of couples who were crazy in love with each other. Great marriages. Yet when their children were born, I'd hear – "I never knew you could love someone so much."
They still have good marriages even with children, but their feelings for their children were/are more powerful than they were prepared for.
I certainly did not understand this when I was younger, but I do now.
November 16, 2009 11:28 am
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Lauren, I really like that, "there but for our grace we go." Both my husband and I's parents are divorced, although both my parents are now in good marriages with other people. I don't fear divorce, but a lot of my fears about my marriage stem directly from my parents marriage, which is why I won't give up my own checking account although we have a joint one (and it took me a long time to work up to that).
So I'm gonna plagarize from you a litte and say: I want a marriage filled with honesty, love, and grace. Honesty to make sure we state our needs and wants and dreams, love to support each other as we pursue them, and grace to get through the rough spots.
November 16, 2009 11:34 am
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I can't stop thinking about this post, and decided I have more to say. Shocker! When don't I have more to say?
In the months leading up to our wedding, I grew increasingly frugal and focused on saving. It was a HUGE departure for me because I've always been more of a spender. Not so much in terms of material goods, but experiences. My husband is also more of a spender than a saver, but to the opposite extent; he loves THINGS.
Anyway, in the months following our wedding, I've continued to be very savings oriented.
I could chalk this up to the ongoing recession and the fact that I was woefully underemployed for several months, but if I'm honest with myself, I know there is something else going on.
My parents are TERRIBLE with money. They don't make much of it to begin with, and when it comes to what they DO have, they're incredibly irresponsible and self-defeating. They save nothing and will never be able to retire. They will literally work until the day they die.
I don't want that. And I know that because of our natural inclinations toward spending (me on experiences, him on things), my husband and I could easily wind up in the same position.
I feel very fortunate in the regard that I've already had the opportunity to see SO MUCH of the world. I've traveled extensively on my own and with friends, and also lived abroad for a year. They're experiences I wouldn't trade for anything, but they're also not experiences that I'm dying to replicate at this point in my life because they were only possible because I was at a point in my life where I could be selfish and self-indulgent and unconcerned with the future.
And those are three things that there simply isn't room for in a marriage.
These days, I find myself seeking stability and even predictability in ways that I never, ever could have imagined when I was single.
It's a real departure.
November 16, 2009 12:11 pm
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First, I am loving the comments. The fear of not living in the present is a big one for me. Our lives changed pretty rapidly in the few years that we've been together. We've had graduations, moved in together, lost big friendships, got engaged and got married. Starting our new life is definitely exciting but we don't have the security of what's been familiar. This was what we both wanted and it feels natural to us, but with moving in a certain direction together other relationships haven't moved as well, make sense?
I too want a brave marriage, for us to feel like making the big decisions will be fine because we've got each other and are in it together. Yeah, I definitely want the passion to stick around as well. Woo hoo!
November 16, 2009 12:16 pm
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I fear that having kids will change our marriage. I see how busy my friends with kids are, and how much time and attention goes towards the children. I wonder whether I'll be so sleep-deprived and worn out by the end of the day that I can still appreciate all the little joys of having a romantic relationship with my husband…let alone feel like an interesting person in my own life.
I thought it was interesting that so many people commented that having a stagnant or practical marriage was a fear of theirs. I guess I only worry about becoming too practical with children, because it seems that many of their needs are urgent and non-negotiable. Until then it all seems like it's more up to us to decide how things to be…after them, I'm worried we'll grow apart because we'll just be dealing with the how-to and be overwhelmed by being busy. I also worry about having conflict over how we raise the children. If you are going to have or want children, they seem to me to be such a big game-changer.
November 16, 2009 1:42 pm
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PS Along with the child thing, I'm worried about the child CARE thing. Will we have a marriage where I just end up taking over more responsibility for the kids? And how will that happen, exactly? I read a post on another site recently where all the women were talking about how they did more of the work of planning their wedding than their fiance. All of them were like, oh honey, don't worry, men just aren't into things like napkins and what-not.
I think this is probably true…and yet it bothers me. We didn't even have napkins and what-not at our wedding, and my husband DID take complete responsibility for a lot of things (organizing the rentals, reception BBQ, lighting, sound, etc.) not to mention helping out on other major items. But we both agree that I ended up doing more of the research and ultimately more of the wedding work. Was this just because I "cared" more about the details? I don't know. I didn't enjoy wedding planning — didn't have a vision from 4th grade, didn't have a color scheme, didn't enjoy going to dress salons. Yet somehow the wedding ended up being something I "cared" more about.
Does this "just happen" with wedding and marriages, and what is that about? Even on feminist wedding/marriage blogs, it's still women who are doing a lot of the discussing & reflecting. I don't see a lot of guys wanting to think about this. I'm not saying that this means we automatically have less egalitarian partnerships, but what does it mean in the 21st century that women still do a lot of the wedding planning, emotional reflection, and child care in relationships? Do we want marriages with these traditional divisions of labor? I would LOVE to hear what people think about this!!
November 16, 2009 1:56 pm
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This is a beautiful blog, and these are beautiful comments.
I fear giving up. This is a silly allegory, but this summer I studied in Tanzania, and I tried to climb Mt. Kilimanjaro. At 4 in the morning during the final climb to the peak, I gave up. I was tired, it was hard, but I know I could have gone on. That's a secret that nobody knows. I didn't get altitude sickness. I just didn't think that I could do it, so then…I didn't.
When I marry Miles, I'm afraid that when things get hard, as they most certainly will with moves and him starting medical school, I'm afraid that I won't be strong enough to fix the broken parts of our marriage when we are a little too harsh with it, or neglect it. I'm afraid that I'm not a strong enough person to keep on going. I'm afraid I'm a quitter who doesn't like to struggle for breath, or to fight against the aches and pains of life.
Fortunately, I'm marrying someone who is the opposite of a quitter. And he loves me. Someone once told me that fear is the antithesis of faith. So 6 months and 6 days from now, I'm going to take a leap of faith that we love each other enough to pull through all of the things that happen to is.
November 16, 2009 2:29 pm
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I don’t want a perfect marriage, just a “perfect for us” marriage. I certainly hope that we make decisions based on us and not expectations placed on us. The biggest thing I want for our marriage to stay ourselves. I want to always be goofy and silly and say nonsense words. And I want to always “pick” on the puppies and act like we’ve lost our minds (or at least that’s what I assume others would think.) and I always want to stay passionate. We argue – but that’s us. We both are stubborn and express our thoughts in a way that reflects that. While I want to grow together and learn better ways to deal with our differences, I never want to become so detached that we don’t care enough to even let the other person know when they are annoying or disrespectful. To me, that would be the worst – indifference. I hope we always share out emotions, fears, and daily thoughts with each other. And I never ever ever want us to be defined by parent roles. I want to be myself before a mother and him to stay himself before a father. Hopefully that will make us better, more intriguing parents. I don’t think my mother had one friend outside of my father and her family. I hope to stay adventurous and witty. I hope to inspire my children with my not letting my own personality disappear. And I hope that when we are 60 years old we say silly nonsense things to each other, still go on trips for cupcakes, travel the world, and generally don’t act our age.
November 16, 2009 2:41 pm
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THIS IS SUCH AN AMAZING, REAL CONVERSATION! I love it! Thank you for sparking such great comments in such amazing women Meg!
November 16, 2009 2:53 pm
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It's wonderful how one person's bravery inspires the others'.
November 16, 2009 2:55 pm
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I just bought the book; it sounds interesting. Count me in for the book club!
November 16, 2009 3:27 pm
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Hey! Count me in for the book club… purchasing the book tonight.
November 16, 2009 4:14 pm
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