Many of you have been asking me for months and months to start a conversation about getting engaged. Since we started wedding undergraduates yesterday, it seems fitting to move a step backwards: to the wedding sandbox, if you will.
First, let me say that I think there are two lines of cultural chatter about engagements, and if it is even possible, I think they are more screwed up than our cultural dialogue about weddings. The first is, in short, that a guy has to do something TOTALLY INSANE to wow you, and that the quality of your love and your manliness will be judged by that, and by the size of the rock. Your job in this scenario is to wait patiently (duh), and save your energy for how totally insane YOU will need to go while planning the wedding. Fabulous. The second line of chatter is, very simply, that if you get proposed to by a man, you are not a feminist (excuse me?) let alone practical (whatever that means).
So. Obviously I think both of those lines of thought are (as one of my acting teachers used to dryly put it) maybe-not-so-helpful. What would *my personal* alternative line of thought be? Well, first I’m going to quote recent wedding graduate Cara and say that the first rule of getting engaged should be, “Know thyself and be thyself.” The second rule of getting engaged should be open and clear communication with your partner.
What do I mean by that? Well, let me talk you through how we thought about our engagement. First of all, we had a proposal. By which I mean, David proposed to me. Why? Well, I wanted that to happen. Perhaps I read too many Victorian novels growing up, or perhaps it’s just that we’re both theatre people and we like big moments, but I wanted a proposal, so I told David that. And then we discussed it a little. He ruled out proposing in public (‘makes it look like you’re afraid you can’t close the deal’* he said). I ruled out him picking a ring for me (as if!) So, as discussed, we both got what we wanted. And he didn’t get down on one knee (‘too cliche,*’ he told me, when I offered my review of the performance afterward).
So then it was just timing. And timing is, in many ways, the real meat of the issue. I heard somewhere recently that, “Being pre-engaged sucks, because you’re just waiting on him, and you have no control over the timing.” And I swear to god, my head almost exploded. Because you’re getting married, it’s time to start getting on your-joint-timing, not his-timing or your-timing. And I mean that in a fairly complicated way. To be frank, I was ready to get married before David was ready to get married. I think we both knew from way way back that unless something unexpected happened (like the world exploding), we were probably going to get married. But knowing you want to get married to someone and feeling emotionally ready to get married to someone are two totally different beasts. So what did we do about our timing? Well we handled it the way we handle most of our problems, by which I mean we yelled at each other and then we calmed down and talked it through. During that process, I realized I need to re-adjust a few things in my head, because getting engaged to someone who isn’t ready to be engaged is unwise. So was I waiting? Yeah, sort of. But I wasn’t waiting because he was the guy and I am the girl, and I wasn’t this-is-out-of-my-hands waiting, I was couple waiting… you know, where you sometimes have to slow down a little to let your partner do things at their own speed.
So. What do I have to say to all you that are, achem, pre-engaged? Know thyself and be thyself. Maybe that means saying you want a proposal and knowing you can still be a feminist and want that. Maybe it means you get off your ass already and propose to him (all the best ladies have). Or maybe you say f*ck the proposal and go straight to the engagement (or f*ck the engagement and go straight to the wedding, for that matter.)
And if you haven’t had a heart to heart with your partner about this yet, put down the computer and go do it. Finally, I’d say, if you are feeling out of control of the situation, take a deep breath. Being married is like learning to dance with someone: it’s not about waiting, it’s about timing.
PS Yes, there is more to talk about. Like rings, for example. But I thought that was enough for now.
*I don’t think that, don’t get offended.
Picture: Knottedrush Ring by Bario Neal. They are a sponsor, but I used this picture because it’s one of my all time favorite engagement rings.
This is perfect.
I've been waiting in pre-engagement limbo for a while – not insane limbo, but patient, calm, stress-free limbo. The BF and I have been planning our wedding for 6 months anyway – photog, 2 venues, dresses, etc. Not kidding. I recently came to terms with the fact that I don't NEED a ring to accept myself as a future bride and oh! How the stress melted away! And the BF has much less stress on him to produce. We all (us and the families) know it's coming eventually, but nobody's in any hurry to do things in a preexisting chain of events and timelines. Screw it. This works for us. Our joint timeline is different than other people's.
With the encouragement of some fellow like-minded bridal bloggers I even started my own wedding-and-life-planning blog. It's been exciting and scary and more fun than I could have asked for, but I probably wouldn't have done it if I hadn't have had the conversation with the BF and said, "I want the big surprise proposal, but I also practically need to start planning this wedding. Will you help me start, even though there's no ring? You cool with that?"
March 3, 2010 4:58 am
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Waiting? Nope not for me – I asked him and he said yes. When I tell people that story they can't seem to comprehend a woman asking a man.
It was a simple sweet occurrence that was very us.
March 3, 2010 5:13 am
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Hoo boy can I relate to this one. Jim and I have a small age difference-I'm 5 years older. Most of the time it seems like nothing, but when it came to being ready to get married, those 5 little years were a very, very big deal.
I started freaking out about my biological clock somewhere around my 34th birthday, and did a terrible job of keeping my insanity to myself. Oh, I tried, believe me. But some anxiety attacks are just too big to keep to yourself, and I nearly broke up with him over it. Lingering medical problems made the situation worse, with people constantly reminding me that I am destined to have a "high risk" pregnancy. All in all it was a bad time for me. I thought; he's not ready, I don't want to push him, I should go out and find some guy who actually wants children and move on. But! Cooler heads prevailed and I waited. And waited. And waited some more. And as I waited, I got calmer. Happier with my decision. Even more sure that this would work out, that I was with the right person and that anyway, our lives were damn good with or without marriage and kids. We were happy. We still are.
He proposed this past Christmas morning. We were still in our pajamas, and I was taking a coffee cake out of the oven when I turned around and saw him standing there with a tiny box, holding the ring we had picked out together a few months before. He said a lot of really lovely things about our home being his favorite place, and it was perfect. I spent the rest of the day laughing. It was really, really nice.
March 3, 2010 5:55 am
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My boyfriend is 7 years younger. I am 30.
You can’t tell how the future will be, when he said he wanted to have kids in 8 years over the weekend, it caused me to react very strongly. It got things back on the table that we do have a different timeline and that we should make sure we sync them.
We talked about our future together that night, and since then, have discussed saving money together for our future, and other things that make me realize we are on the right path.
But, regardless, you can bet my “Ingognito page” on my browser is utilized all the time! I think he would freak out if he knew how much time I like read about weddings!
July 22, 2010 9:01 pm
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Back in my day we didn't have "pre-engaged." You waited, because you really didn't know if you were going to get married until he asked. No one ever, ever, ever, would have started planning the wedding without being truly engaged. It seems now that the proposal isn't the engagement. It's the first ritualistic step in the wedding. Far be it from me to have an opinion. I would like, however, about the moments what all of you realized that you were, in fact, pre-engaged. What was that conversation like? That moment?
March 3, 2010 5:55 am
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Oh, thank you for this post! Those two strands of cultural chatter? Terrible!
I really like what you said about being emotionally ready to marry someone. The BF and I know we will marry each other, and talk about it openly and frequently, but neither of us wants to do it now. You explained exactly why that is!
We both love doing somewhat dramatic gestures for each other, but I love love love surprises, and BF does not. He only half-jokingly told me once, "If you propose to me I will say no! Let me do it." And this feminist can get behind that.
So we're waiting for each other to be ready. And in the meantime, I am reading this blog & we're talking about how rad it will be to have an iPod for the music at our wedding, etc. :)
March 3, 2010 5:55 am
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We are in the "skip the proposal, go right to being engaged" camp. We had be talking about getting married for a while, and finally decided that the time was right to get engaged – but there was no actually asking.
We just went to the jewelry store and got a ring. Perfect for us.
March 3, 2010 5:58 am
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Thank you for writing this and confirming that I'm not crazy!
In a long-distance relationship, certain issues of timing necessarily become clear. We knew we would get married when I moved back home after grad school, and we knew it would take about a year to plan a wedding long-distance. I didn't see a lot of significance in "getting engaged" – what was it going to change? It just confirms what we had already decided.
I knew, however, that a proposal was something he really wanted to do, a special way of expressing his love by surprising me. So I waited, because I wanted him to do it the way he wanted. At times it felt like anti-feminist, why-am-I-waiting-on-a-man waiting. But I finally realized that I can't turn everything into a feminist battle. It was important to him, and I knew that we would be getting married in the end, so why demand control over the process just for the sake of feeling in control?
This is not to say that I think every girl should wait for a proposal, just that in my case it was best to come to terms with tradition.
March 3, 2010 6:02 am
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So far this week of APW is being totally amazing and helpful and, well, practical. And it's only Wednesday! I really appreciate the effort you spend putting all of this together for us "out there in Brideland." Thanks again.
March 3, 2010 6:12 am
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@Emily,
I think it's interesting that waiting feels like a feminist struggle, and I think it's unfortunate that so many of us feel this way.
I think talking about marriage, getting on the same page about your future together, and then waiting for this one moment that means a lot to one/both of you isn't anti-feminist.
That's the difficulty with weddings–sometimes you want a tradition, even ones w/ shadowy backgrounds (name changing, walking down the aisle w/ fathers, wearing white). But you get to make them *yours* and positive and feminist. After all, feminism is all about having choices.
March 3, 2010 6:12 am
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I remember the waiting process…ugh. We both wanted to be engaged, but he was a student at the time and it took him a while to scrape pennies together, tho I suggested more than once that a twist tie engagement ring would do! It was what I now realize is "couples waiting" (thanks for coining that term Meg – it will come in handy in our relationship I presume), but I am very bad at waiting. Very bad. I notoriously blow surprises (more on the engagement 'surprise' below) and am an overeager doer (it runs in my family). What can I say? I like to get a jump on things.
In retrospect, (I say that like it's been years…it's only been 7 months!) I feel bad for the pressure I may have inadvertently put on my fiance. I can only imagine how intimidating it must be to want to propose (as soon as financially possible), while knowing that your bride-to-be is preemptively planning and organizing wedding related things while she waits "patiently" for you to propose. I should apologize for that. Add that to my to-do list!
I did want a big surprise, but in typical form, we blew it: he left a note on the kitchen table mixed in with the mail which happened to say "rent car, buy tickets, bring RING, make dinner reservations." When I found the note, I decided not to let him know that I knew…he is such a romantic and he obviously put a lot of time into planning such a great proposal. Instead, I had time to mentally prepare during the week leading up to the proposal. I could try a few different outfits on to see what worked best for our 'just engaged' photos. And when things didn't go according to his plan, I didn't call him out on things (it wasn't supposed to be 70 degrees that day, but it was and yet he insisted on carrying a coat all day…to hide the ring). I didn't know exactly how he was going to do it, so I just went along for the ride and actually learned that following his lead (instead of leading the way) can be really fun.
Thankfully, because we had talked about what we wanted for our wedding long before we got engaged, we could immediately articulate our vision for a "wedding that gives back" capped by a "big fun party" when family and friends started grilling us. It all works out. :)
March 3, 2010 6:18 am
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I was the one that wasn't ready to get engaged or married. So he waited. And waited. For eight years!
My lovely sweetie would say things like 'it's really hard for me not to propose right now" whenever we were out hiking or having a really nice time out. So when I finally said "okay, so why don't you?" he was completely surprised and unprepared.
We like to say the engagement was a surprise to both of us. But really, we had been talking in broad terms about it for years and years.
March 3, 2010 6:21 am
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My FH has been ready to get married since sometime between the first time we went out together with friends and the end of our first date, events which were less than 2 weeks apart. We were called pre-engaged a lot. Usually in a condescending manner. Sometimes finding the right time isn't just about both people being ready or wanting it, sometimes it's about waiting until after graduation or a promotion or because a sibling is getting married and asked you to wait. We were together over 3 years before he proposed (important to him) and in all honesty, I much preferred the pre-engaged time because we could take our time and talk about the wedding in ifs and maybes without having to worry about practicality. It gave us time to know what we wanted, really wanted, so that when we did have a time table (soon) and a budget (as little as possible), we already knew what was important, what wasn't important, and where we wanted to allocate our time. I guess our experience has been that dating/pre-engagement was fun and exciting, while engagement has been stress and pressure and not fun. I'm hoping marriage lets us get back to fun.
March 3, 2010 6:23 am
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great timing, Meg! I suppose I am one of the pre-engaged. I almost called my boyfriend my husband the other day. Whoops!
For LPC: my boyfriend and I live together. It was sort of a choice and sort of forced upon us by circumstances (as in, we wanted to live together, but we moved in together a bit earlier than perhaps we would have had circumstances not intervened). It's worked out charmingly well, for the most part. The strange thing is that we live at a boarding school — a religious boarding school — in a dorm. A month ago or so, his school had a talk with him about his "living situation." He came home, and we had serious talks about our relationship. I think it's then that I realized we're truly on the marriage route. Before that, I wasn't 100% sure.
I am now (sort of) patiently waiting. He's expressed a desire to be the one who does the proposing. This is hard for me, since I am impatient and a bit impulsive. He is super patient. We'll see how long this takes :-) In the meantime, we have been taking time to discuss money, how to raise kids (we always knew we both wanted them), and all sorts of various important topics.
Mostly it's hard for me because I keep half-designing weddings in my head and playing them out for him, and he just laughs and tells me to be patient.
March 3, 2010 6:24 am
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I feel relieved after reading this. Thank you!
March 3, 2010 6:32 am
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I love this post and all the comments. "Pre-engaged" is exactly where my guy and I are. We talk about everything and I am a planner. I love poring over details of exciting things that I can see on the horizon – vacations, our future together, raising children. We know we are going to get married. Our families know. Our close friends know. We just haven't done the proposal thing yet. Pete is struggling financially and isn't the best at saving money, but an engagement ring is very important to him. I've been very open about my lack of concern for a ring – it just doesn't matter very much to me. But it's an important symbol for Pete and I can get on board with that. So we're waiting while he gets the money together to get me his dream ring. And in the meantime I get to daydream about bare feet and multiple homemade cakes and sunshine and laughter and joy. Prolonging the pre-engagement timeline just gives us more time to figure out what we want from our wedding.
I'm cool with "couples waiting" cause we're doing it together.
March 3, 2010 6:33 am
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@LPC
Ohhhh… when we moved across the country together so he could go to law school ;) Y'all didn't do that without being engaged or married either, so that's a big part of the difference.
March 3, 2010 6:40 am
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That state of "pre-engagment" was the story of my life. I knew that I was emotionally ready to be married to my fiancee before he knew it, but I am a child of divorce and would under no circumstances ask him before I knew that he was ready too, so I waited for him to ask me. And I'm so glad I did, it was the right thing for us.
On the ring, I never wanted a huge "rock" or a big showy thing. I always said the man I wanted to marry would know my tastes enough to get the perfect ring. He took the diamond from his grandmother's ring and got a new white gold setting, which was perfect. It is probably .25 carats – not too showy, but above all else it has sentimental value and that means way more to me than what it would fetch in a pawn shop any day. I love my ring!
March 3, 2010 6:54 am
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Thank you Meg. I'm in pre-engagement mode, which is usually exciting although occasionally annoying. My BF lives in Minnesota and I live in Mississippi. I'm moving up there after I finish grad school (summer)…I think we'll be engaged by then…or something, I don't know. Anyway. THANK YOU SO MUCH. You're blog rocks my world. I had a wedding blog overdose about 2 months ago and I deleted almost all of them from my reader – but yours isn't going anywhere. You've really let me know that I can do my own thing and that there are hordes of others who have traversed those waters successfully. Being from the south, from a rather snooty area, I've been fearing my wedding for years; I'm not a big ado kind of girl, but this is a much ado kind of town. It's going to be really difficult, and, honestly, it'd be so much easier to just let my mom have free reign and invite 450 people (350 of whom I don't know) and have food I don't like and sterile decorations that make me kind of nauseous. (granted, these aren't the most important things in life or in weddings, but they're still unnerving) Anyway, thanks for your blog and your sane/sage advice. I really appreciate it.
March 3, 2010 6:57 am
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"Well we handled it the way we handle most of our problems, by which I mean we yelled at each other and then we calmed down and talked it through."
YES! I'm not the only one who does this! (For us it was also around the time when I realized, "Hey, WTF, I moved back to this city to be with you!? Let's talk about what this means, yes?"
This may be catty and too simple, but my guideline is: if you are surprised when you get engaged (like REALLY surprised) than you probably shouldn't be engaged. Also, I had the best-ever proposal back-up plan waiting in the wings to propose to D$, but he beat me to the punch.
March 3, 2010 6:57 am
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Seriously, if you are a woman who wants to get married to a man, I highly recommend at least considering proposing to him. Don't just assume that option is off the table.
Also, don't assume that he isn't ready to get married just because he hasn't proposed yet. If you've talked about marriage and planning a life together, and you both like the idea — the time is probably right.
My now-fiancĂŠ and I had talked it over multiple times, and agreed that women should feel free to do the asking. Eventually I decided to put my money where my mouth was and ask him.
I'd felt like I was ready to be proposed to, for a few years. But when I started planning to propose to him, suddenly it didn't feel so easy. I was scared. What if, despite our conversations on the subject, he wasn't really okay with me proposing? What if, despite other conversations, he didn't really want to get married? What if he just didn't really want to marry me? There was no rational basis to think that — but it's a very vulnerable moment. All these fears pop up.
(See? I knew I wanted to marry him. I was 99.9% sure he wanted to marry me. But I waited and delayed on actually proposing, because I was nervous. I bet lots of guys are in that same boat. Again, him proposing isn't the only way you'll know he really wants to get married.)
I bought him a ring almost six months before proposing, and spent that whole time agonizing. Finally decided to ask him on Christmas Eve, at home, just the two of us. And people, I came this close to chickening out then. But I didn't.
And in case you worry about missing out on the excitement and romance of a surprise proposal: trust me, it's just as exciting, dramatic, and overwhelming when you're on the asking end. Maybe more so.
For the record, he said yes. Actually he said "Of course I will!" And he was as giddy and excited as I've ever seen him.
March 3, 2010 6:59 am
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I'm so glad we're discussing this here.
I'm 24 and my boyfriend is turning 30 next month. I guess you could call us pre-engaged. We talk about getting married all the time. We're on the same page about it – and neither of us is quite ready. I think we realized we'd probably get married between our first six months and year of dating. We complement each other, have similar interests and are constantly making each other laugh. It's hard to describe how we knew, but we did.
In the swirl of other people getting married and friends and family members mentioning marriage to us, I've become fascinated by the cultural expectations surrounding marriage. I'm younger and come from a family that thinks, "Take your time, because not marrying the right person could have dire consequences." My parents, grandma and sister really haven't pushed marriage on me, although my parents say they'd respect my choice if we decided to marry soon.
My boyfriend, on the other hand, gets a lot more pressure. We met through his church, and so some of the people he knows there have started asking, "Are you two ever getting married?" His parents love to throw parties, and I know they'd be thrilled if we got engaged tomorrow. (And don't get me wrong, I'm thinking about what kind of wedding we'll plan when we decide to have one. I read wedding blogs. It's fun to ponder.)
But we're just not there. He'd like to finish school and get a better job. I want to luxuriate in living by myself while I can, and I refuse to think of that as selfish. When we decide to marry, I want to be wholly and utterly prepared for our life together. After all, I've seen former classmates marry and divorce. I've seen how an unhappy marriage can affect men and women and their families. I maintain that it doesn't take any special talent to get married, but it requires a lifelong commitment to have a healthy, happy marriage. Rushing into it just doesn't seem like a good way to start.
March 3, 2010 7:02 am
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@Carrie
YES YES YES. That's a lot of what this post is about. Not about waiting. In fact, specifically not about waiting, but about figuring out your options (and that you have them).
x
March 3, 2010 7:07 am
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YES. YES. YES!
i know exactly how this goes because i am currently in a "weird" situation too. i am currently planning a wedding with a set date and do not have an engagement ring. you want to know why? it's because i know my permanent roommate and i are ready and we have discussed this multiple times. lately though, it has bothered me how much people bring up the fact that i don't have a ring yet and frankly, that's because i am waiting for my permanent roommate to propose. i know he will because he knows how much it will mean to me (maybe i read too many victorian novels too). anyway, last time i checked, at this point in a relationship, i'm supposed to trust my permanent roommate. apparently none of my so-called friends do except my bridesmaids.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS AMAZING POST!
March 3, 2010 7:09 am
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@LPC — We discussed it. I got stuck on a month-long business trip from Hell, which crystallized a lot of feelings for both of us. When I finally got home we laid on the floor and talked and decided that we wanted to keep each other permanently. Neither of us was sure that that meant marriage (he's a radical atheist and I'm a radical feminist, so pledging something before God and Man seems a little… unnecessary), but moving into the state of "yes we're staying together forever" has allowed us both to think about that more clearly. I'm still kind of hesitant, but having that conversation has allowed me to think about why that is and discuss it with him.
I'll be honest that I do feel torn between some vague desire to participate in the cultural ritual of The Proposal (and wedding, and all of it, but that's another post) — but on the other hand I strongly believe that the cultural narrative of "he decides when we get engaged" is a horrible way to start a lifetime together. That's a major life decision, there should be some discussion!
March 3, 2010 7:28 am
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Great post! I have a lot of friends who are in the waiting position right now. And for the most part, they're all waiting until they and their partners have more money. Which I can understand. But at the same time, I think, like you said, skip the proposal, skip the engagement, go straight to a wedding. For me, waiting for money has never been a good idea to put off marriage. Waiting for the right time seems dumb. If you're in love, go for it. There's way too much focus in our society about the ring, the proposal, the planning, the gigantic wedding. It's love that you need, plain and simple. Having said that though, the Mr. was so traditional and drug out my waiting process for-e-ver. I hate him a little for that, haha.
March 3, 2010 7:38 am
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Right on, Meg! I never knew how to explain what we were going through before getting engaged. But you described it so perfectly. Ginger was definitely in the mindset of we will probably get married one day, but not in the emotionally ready place I was. And, I had to do some "couple waiting." Then, once we were both ready, we talked about proposals and getting engaged. We realized neither of us wanted an engagement ring, so one day we just asked each other. It wasn't a big planned surprise type thing. We just came home from work one day and neither of us could wait another second (after 4 yrs together) to be engaged. Later that night, we bought a bottle of champagne and toasted while we called our parents and friends together. I think it's really important to talk about what you want together. I had this idea that I would surprise Ginger with a ring while we were skiing/snowboarding. She says she would of loved the jewelry I picked out, but a surprise proposal with a ring wouldn't have been what she really wanted. Soooo glad I asked! I also think people shouldn't worry about coming to the emotionally ready to get married place at the exact same time as their partner. I really wish someone that told me this, because I felt like something was wrong with us. I felt like other couples were ready at the exact same time. But in reality, I don't think people really talk about the "couple waiting." That part seems to be omitted from the cultural chatter. Great post!
March 3, 2010 7:48 am
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@LPC
I passed him a note on a napkin at a pizza joint that said "I'm gonna marry you someday." He read it, grinned and nodded. Eventually, over a few years, discussions followed, a question was asked, a marriage began.
March 3, 2010 7:49 am
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I'd be really interested to hear from some men about this. I wonder what the social pressures feel like from that side. Is there anxiety about creating the ultimate romantic experience while still maintaining the requisite amount of masculinity? And how to practical grooms-to-be handle the size-of-the-diamond-equals-amount-of-love situation? I'd love to offer my husband as a guest blogger on this one but, alas, grad school consumes his life/time.
March 3, 2010 7:54 am
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I am so thankful for the beginning of this engagemnets and proposals dialogue…
"knowing you want to get married to someone and feeling emotionally ready to get married to someone are two totally different beasts" – this speaks volumes to me, as I am the one who is not yet emotionally ready to marry the man I know I want to marry, and have been made to feel completely insane for it. Not to mention, NO one belives him when he tells all the people who are up in our sh*t to get married that I'M the one who's holding it up.
Thank you!
March 3, 2010 7:57 am
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Thank you so much for this post. I feel as though I've been in pre-engagement limbo for almost 2 years, and I'm certain it's going to last at least another year and a half. Most of the time, I can be pretty zen about it, but sometimes it makes me anxious and sad. I've known that I wanted to be married to my boyfriend pretty much since year one, which stunned and shocked me because a) I'd never had thoughts like that before with other guys (It was more like "I could see myself married to this guy someday"), b) I'd always thought of myself as being too young before then (I was 24 when I started realizing what I wanted), and c) It was way, way too early in the relationship and I knew it. Thankfully, because he's an awesome guy, we were able to have a rational conversation about it, and we've had a few more since then as well. Unfortunately, now we're on year 3 and we're both 26, and a lot of our friends are starting to get engaged (some of whom are younger than us or have been dating for less time). I still know I'm ready, and he still isn't. Mainly he still isn't for practical reasons: he's still in school and will be until the end of 2011, and he doesn't have any sort of stable financial situation yet, and wants to get both of those things resolved before proposing. But there is part of it that is emotional too. His parents are divorced and it was kind of an ugly situation, and I know he doesn't want to repeat those mistakes.
I think the thing that keeps me from going crazy all the time is having this feeling, deep down, that he will get there and it will happen. He even admitted to me once that he thinks about all of those silly details, like what our wedding will be like. We talk easily about things we want to do someday, how we'd want to raise kids if we have them, what we want our wedding to be like if we have one. Yet, some part of me is sad that he's not emotionally in the same place that I am. It can definitely be a struggle, but it's one worth having because we make each other so very happy and care about each other so very much.
March 3, 2010 8:05 am
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Amy, I feel you. I am in such a similar sitch with my bf of almost 3 years. I am emotionally ready (I think) and he is still in school (and will be for another year) and is still getting his yayas out (wow, I hate that expression) to some extent. I feel like a psycho for secretly pining over engagement rings and feeling envious of other couples who are getting engaged, even when I know rationally that just because they are engaged doesn’t mean their relationship is in any way superior to mine, or any good at all, for that matter. Also, since when did I care about this stuff? I used to not feel sad about it but now it bothers me because I always thought we’d be engaged sooner. Oh well… can’t rush these things!
August 3, 2010 4:31 pm
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Yes indeed. I was "pre-engaged" for a year, but only because we'd already had that conversation and I was waiting for him to be really ready. I'm older, and was ready first. He knew, but needed time to process what it all meant to get MARRIED. FOREVER. And we were both okay with that. We picked out the ring together, we talked timetable, and I waited. Securely, but also sometimes frustratingly. Except for this corner of the internet, no one seems to believe me about our process – I was perceived as some crazy wedding obsessed shrew and he was getting harranged into marriage and he was making the wrong choice for a ring (really? his friends didn't think that I knew what sort of non-diamond ring I wanted for myself?)
In conclusion, yay for this article and corner of the internet. There's so much more between a him-on-one-knee-mega-surprise and a woman-ask-him-or-you[re-not-feminist proposal. Just talk and be true to yourselves, for goodness sake.
March 3, 2010 8:11 am
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@Meg: Absolutely! Waiting because one person really isn't quite there yet =/= waiting because you feel you can't ask.
I just wanted to expand a little more on the woman-proposing-to-man option, because it's one that a lot of people tend to overlook or dismiss out of hand, or assume is only for the super-edgy, stick-it-to-the-man types. (And trust me — we're not super-edgy. We're quiet, nerdy types who don't like a ton of confrontation. Our wedding is going to be pretty darn traditional in a lot of ways. Being a woman who proposes to a man doesn't mean you're obligated to have the Edgy Wedding of the Century — unless of course you want to!)
Choosing that option — even just considering that option, even if you don't choose it — also highlights a ton of the cultural assumptions and expectations about engagement and marriage. For example, I worried for a long time that if I proposed, people would think I had pressured and nagged him into getting married — that my proposing meant I was fed up and desperate, and he just gave in to shut me up. I hated the idea of people thinking that.
No one's actually said that, at least not in my hearing, which is a relief. Actually, a lot of people seem to think it's neat that I asked.
Lots of women I've talked to seem to feel like they have to wait for him to ask, because "he'll ask when he's ready" — i.e. you have to assume he doesn't want to get married unless and until he makes a big surprise proposal. As lots of us here know, that isn't true.
Obviously, "woman proposing to man" is just one of the alternate options to that assumption. You can decide as a couple and not bother with a formal proposal at all; you can decide you really like the traditional proposal ritual and do that to seal an informal engagement decision; you could both plan surprise proposals for each other! (I saw one couple who did this, and thought it was the most freaking adorable idea ever.) And many more.
The other ones are perfectly valid — do what's right for you and your relationship. Being the woman who proposes just happens to be the one I chose, and therefore I like to talk about it :)
March 3, 2010 8:18 am
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My fiance just decided we were going to get married and that was it. No proposal. No on bended knee. He sent me a text message saying we should get married. He had already given me a promise ring so he got me a wedding band. Do I feel a bit cheated? Sometimes. But I wanted the man and that's what I got so I am happy.
March 3, 2010 8:23 am
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THANK YOU for this. Makes me not feel like a looney for talking to my boyfriend (now fiance) about it. He was SO worried that without a giant ring & money for a giant wedding that we couldn't take the next step. We talked it through, knew we didn't need a HUGE wedding-show and knew that there was no time like the present to be engaged, for however long we needed to be. I felt like my talking to him ruined the 'magic' and surprise of the thing – this at least makes me seem practical and in control of the situation.
March 3, 2010 8:31 am
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I've been waiting for this post as well. We finally had a discussion about marriage recently, and I know now that I am ready "whenever" and he will be ready "soon." However, it was clear to me that he considers it a monumental decision– there is a lot of divorce in his family and while he doesn't think that will happen to us, he does recognize that it is a massive, lifelong commitment that shouldn't be taken lightly. Nevertheless, he did tell me that he would do it when he was ready, and that I wouldn't have to wait another 3 years for it. He is very traditional and wants it to be a surprise– I hate surprises, but it's important to him. I did, however, encourage him to talk to my best friend when he is picking out the ring, since I have entrusted her with a document that lists all the types of rings I like. I will not, for any reason, return the ring that he proposes with because it will be special. But it would be nice if I had a little say in it! So, I am sort of waiting, but like you said Meg, it is the "couples" waiting, not the "waiting because I'm the girl and he needs to propose." It is important to my boyfriend that he does the proposing and that he surprises me with it…probably because he thinks it's funny that I don't like surprises. And now that we've had that discussion, I don't feel like I'm really waiting anymore because I know it's going to happen.
March 3, 2010 8:36 am
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"But knowing you want to get married to someone and feeling emotionally ready to get married to someone are two totally different beasts."
i think this may become the answer i've been searching for when everyone around us gets exasperated looks on their faces and asks when my boyfriend and i who talk openly about our forever future (but are not and have no desire to become engaged yet) are getting engaged. it seems like a much better conversation starter that "whenever we damn well want to!" and i think more people need to be having conversations about what marriage means to them instead of just swallowing the terms and definitions society gives us.
thank you!
March 3, 2010 8:38 am
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My fiance and I definitely did the pre-engaged thing, and as Meg said it was very much about each of us getting ready to be married, period. We were in love and we lived together and we knew we wanted to get married one day, but there's a difference between that and married and we wanted to give ourselves time to grow up.
And I was happy to wait for him to propose because, well, I'm a bit of a type-A planner and wanted to let him have the space to do his thing. He ended up totally surprising me (even the fact that I was surprised surprised me) and it was lovely.
Now that we're in heavy wedding planning mode, we are making all of the decisions together but I'm the one with the binder, I'm the one with the spreadsheets. This works for us, not because I'm the woman but because that's what I like to do and that is decidedly NOT what he likes to do. We're just being ourselves and it's working. I'm happy that we're both making our individual contributions to bringing this marriage into being.
In short, I'm digging the engagement content!
March 3, 2010 8:49 am
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ahhh! thanks Meg, I'm glad this conversation got started officially. I could seriously have used this kind of talk about 18 months ago, so glad to see there are all these pre-engaged couples out there already ensconced in this practical community (as well as those who are not even close to being engaged! it's never too early to hear "know thyself and be thyself").
March 3, 2010 8:49 am
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This is a great post! I brought up getting married so many times in our kitchen in our tiny little apartment. "Honey let's just go down to the justice of the peace, wouldn't that be awesome?", was all I would say, and he'd laugh and give me this "you're so silly" look. It never worked. I found out later, that he'd wanted to do this very traditionally all along. He designed the ring (which is perfect for me) himself, he snuck it onto the plane for vacation, and he waited for the perfect spot in San Francisco (on Municipal Pier outside of Ghirardelli Square) to get down on one knee. It is one of my all time fondest memories of us. So yeah, I didn't get to do the proposing, but I'm still getting to marry the man I love. And eff cultural chatter. My instinct is to do the opposite of what's "supposed" to be done. Different strokes for different folks. If we're all unique individuals, how is it so hard for societies to understand that one way of doing things doesn't necessarily work for all of us?
March 3, 2010 8:56 am
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My sweetheart and I proposed to each other! We talked about what we each wanted: rings for both of us, an awesome day filled with our favorite activities, and a mutual proposal (with him going first, just for the heck of it). Then we made it happen together! It was perfect for our egalitarian relationship, and I can say with certainty that the lack of surprise takes nothing away from the emotional impact of the moment!
March 3, 2010 9:00 am
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wow Meg, you're amazing, you really put the last couple years of my swirling thoughts on paper just like that!
Even though I saw us together forever it took me a really long time to be able to see us getting married. And once I did I somehow thought he would have gotten there too, at the same time. Timing really is everything. So then I spent a long time waiting for a proposal and getting angrier that he didn't seem to get it. I thought by saying out loud that I wanted that proposal I would ruin everything. There were heated arguments and tears. I didn't think about how his head had to get there too. Eventually he did get there and I got my proposal, but after all that it was never going to be the surprise I had been trying to get all along. In the end, I do wish I'd just talked to him before it all built up and I became so emotional about it. I had always taken charge in many ways in our relationship so I just wanted him to take charge on this. Of course that is silly, in hindsight. For those of you still pre-engaged: be mature about it. Like Meg says, communicate clearly. Those are wise words!
March 3, 2010 9:08 am
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Aaah, being "pre-engaged." Cue neurotic tendencies.
As soon as I realized that I wanted to be with my guy, not just until our apartment lease was up, or until I graduated college, but FOREVER, I began to wait. And wait.
And then I just didn't want to wait anymore, so we talked about getting married. We talked about it so often over a span of months, in fact, that we realized that both of us considered ourselves ready.
One day, we were having lunch at our favorite local authentic Mexican restaurant, and we decided to stop in at a shop down the street and see what this "bridal jewelry sale" stuff was all about.
We walked away with a ring. A ring that we bought, TOGETHER. Like, he paid for half, I paid for half. Pretty mature, I thought.
While I waited (for more than one month!), I lurked on wedding blogs, I fell in love with all things vintage, and I became a crazy pre-engaged force to be reckoned with. And I hated it. I hated every single part of pre-engagement, mostly because I knew that somewhere in the home we shared together was a ring that I was waiting for him to give me, a ring that we purchased together.
I felt like I shouldn't have to wait for something that we both agreed that we wanted, but I think I've come to realize that A) he wanted the proposal moment just as much as I did, which is why he took a full month to plan it (and it was perfect!), and B) he was probably nervous as hell, because despite the multitude of conversations we'd had about marriage, the actual act of asking someone to share your life can be down right scary.
Thank you for this post!
March 3, 2010 9:10 am
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Thanks for this post. I have to say, my fiance and I did things in a strange sort of way, but I wouldn't change a thing.
We've been together since high school- I was 14 and he was 17 when we met, and we're now 23 and 25 respectively. We're the only partners the other has ever had, and while that can be strange sometimes, it makes for a very strong relationship that is defined solely by our needs and desires, rather than past expectations and histories.
We knew we wanted to spend our lives together maybe six months into our relationship. Being young and in love makes you sort of stupid, but we were smart enough to know that there were other things we wanted to accomplish first (hello college!). Well, years passed and we moved in together with a bunch of friends after my scholastic career came plummeting tragically down and I moved back home. I was 19 at that point, and really happy for the most part. We were finally living together like we had always talked about, and just waking up next to each other every day was amazing. He started thinking more seriously about marriage, but as a 19 year old feminist college drop out, I couldn't wrap my mind around that. I needed to sort myself out first.
That May I went up to visit friends still at my old school. It was fun at first, but being there, knowing I could never go to school there again (it was the first time in my life that I realized I wasn't ever going to have a certain very dear dream come true), the night turned very bad. I ended up getting extremely drunk and injuring my shoulder really badly. Around 2 in the morning I was sitting outside in the rain and drunkenly called my boyfriend, crying, messy and miserable.
The next morning I woke up in my friend's dorm, to the sound of her phone ringing. I answered it, and it was the security office, saying that someone asking for me (not my friend) was at the security gate, and that I had to sign them in. Wtf. I drag my sorry self down to the security office, and there is my boyfriend. He's been there for several hours, waiting for a reasonable hour to call me to to let him in. He left our house immediately after I called, drove four hours through a mountain storm because he knew I was sad and in trouble. He proposed then and there, and I saw that this was someone who would be there for me when I was suffering, someone who would be there when my dreams fell through, and someone who would support me in finding and fulfilling new ones. I mean really, could you ask for anything more?
I said yes, and we waited three years to set a date. I was still a very young woman, trying to wrap my mind around the concept of being a wife. I found a job I loved, and started making my own plans and rethinking my own future, and our future together. But about a year ago, after helping our friends who were our own age move into a house they had purchased together, I realized that it was time, and I didn't want to wait any longer.
That was about a year ago. We're getting married in June, and our relationship (which has always been amazing and very strong) is better than ever. The moral of this (very) long story is that you just have to do everything (not just weddings and engagements) at your own pace and in your own way. If you have a partner who understands that (or if you have a partner like me, and you personally understand that) then you're doing something right.
March 3, 2010 9:14 am
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This is EXACTLY what I needed, and frankly, what the larger community/society needed, too. Please don't stop with this topic – and keep up the honesty. It's my FAVORITE thing about your blog – the honesty. What's that? You and your husband yelled about getting married and hurt feelings were discussed and resolved? How far away is that statement from napkins that match the shade of peach in the carpet that match the laterns, etc. How refreshingly REAL. :-)
Thanks for all that you do. <3
Best,
Another "pre-us" chica
March 3, 2010 9:20 am
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SO perfect. We're exactly in "pre-engagement", and kind of enjoying it, really. I know it's coming – he's already talked with my parents and my best friend, and the ring has been purchased and is being made (in Ireland…*squee*). He wanted me to pick out the ring design, and I wanted to be surprised by the proposal. So that has all worked out just fine. I don't feel that we are being anything other than "us" with the decisions we are making.
I completely agree with @technicolorwedding, when she said that "we all know it's coming eventually, but nobody's in any hurry to do things in a preexisting chain of events and timelines" – so what if he hasn't proposed yet, and my friend is sketching dress designs? Luckily, both our families are highly supportive of how we're doing things.
Mostly, I'm excited. Constantly, filled-to-the-brim, my cup-runneth-over with love excited. We both are, and it is such a wonderful feeling.
March 3, 2010 9:22 am
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Am I the only one who feels that if you're planning a wedding to gether you are then in fact "engaged"? I don't think it's about the proposal…if you decided to get married you're "engaged to be married".
?????
While I understand the pre-engaged state because this rings super true to my relationship: "knowing you want to get married to someone and feeling emotionally ready to get married to someone are two totally different beasts".
I do feel that if marriage is more than a "we'll do it…someday soonish, just not quite yet and I think I'd like peonies". If you're booking a hall and actively planning, then you. are. engaged.
I don't get why some people need the proposal to validate the decision to get married. I like the way you put it, Meg, about skipping that or the engagement.
March 3, 2010 9:26 am
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When we tell people that my partner (who happens to be the more masculine looking male-identified one of us) didn’t propose, I get a very specific look of pity and MJ gets the hairy eyeball. Then I get all self-conscious and start making excuses for my partner because I feel like people think he’s a slacker. Even though we are completely happy with the way things happened, those looks are very powerful.
You see, for most of our adult lives (separate and then together), we didn’t think we were the marrying kind of people. Feminism, queerness, not having a lot of money, and a punk anti-establishment ethic didn’t seem very compatible with getting married. And, then, things changed. We went through a lot of really great and really terrible things together and started to feel like we wanted to do something more permanent and grounding for our relationship. From the moment that we started talking in earnest about marriage, I made two things clear: a) I didn’t want a fancy, schmancy proposal, and b) I didn’t want a ring.
So, we sat down over some mediocre pizza and weighed out the benefits and drawbacks (and, yes, there were both) to a wedding and a marriage. We talked about whether we were ready (I was, he almost was), the best timing for getting married, and how to break the news to people. We both ramped up our individual therapy sessions to make sure that we were ready marriage and to help with any drama/pushback we received from others. (And, wow, was that ever a great decision!) And then we dove in – head first! While I enjoy hearing about other people’s fancy engagements, I am also really happy that we sat down and made a mutual decision to move forward with getting married. A traditional proposal just wouldn’t have been the right thing for us.
I did eventually get a ring (despite my protesting!), but that’s another story about compromise and peer pressure.
———————-
@ Cara – YES! I’ve talked to my partner a lot about the social pressure he felt around engagement and rings, and there is A LOT of pressure. Maybe some guest-blogging guys are in order?
March 3, 2010 9:28 am
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this has nothing to do with anything but weeeeee!
http://dcist.com/2010/03/first_same-sex_couples_file_marriag.php
March 3, 2010 9:29 am
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Thank you so much for this post. My boyfriend and I are pre-engaged… both of us are finishing up grad school and long distance, too. I've been feeling a little frustrated because while we're both planning to marry, his timeline is a little behind mine, and I hate feeling like I'm that cliche'd female just dying to get hitched while the guy drags his heels.
It's really helped to have frank discussions about why we're feeling how we're feeling, and about our slightly different understandings of what "being engaged" means.
As a compromise, we've already commissioned a custom engagement ring from a seller on etsy, so I get to know that he is committed to the relationship, and in return I'm doing better about waiting until he's ready to make it official.
March 3, 2010 9:36 am
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2 years ago
me: Wanna get married soon?
him: Not right now, I don't think.
me: But someday, right?
him: For sure!
8 months ago
him: Wanna get married soon?
me: Yeah. That'd be fun!
him: Next summer?
me: That's probably good, yeah.
him: Good.
The proposal was perfect; we're both ready. Life is good. We picked out the ring together. We're getting married in 5 months! And I'm still me and he's still him. Eight years of life partnership is already a marriage, just under a different name and with different terms (in my lovely country anyways). I think no one should have to lose anything of themselves to gain a marriage. Just be happy on your own terms!
March 3, 2010 9:46 am
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