I know what you’re thinking, “She’s only recently back from vacation and she’s dipping her toes into the kids-or-no-kids discussion for the first time? She’s craaaazzzzyyy.” Which. Is probably true. Or maybe I’ve just been missing your bazillion smart comments… you never know. Regardless, here we go.
I’ve gotten tons and tons of emails from you guys over the last few months wanting to talk about kids n’ marriage, and for whatever reason, I picked Jennifer’s letter. Something about it grabbed me. But this post isn’t for Jennifer in particular, it’s for everyone, with thanks to Jennifer for kicking the discussion off. Today's post is about deciding when to have kids, and next week we're going to get into deciding NOT to have kids (because I know there are plenty of you who don't plan to have any, and I think that's rad.)
Hi Meg,
My name is Jennifer, I'm 25 and I've been with my soon-to-be since 2007. We bought a house last year knowing we would get married and have a family eventually. He proposed in February of this year and we are planning a charming backyard shindig at our new home. We've been discussing all sorts of things about our future together including the having (or not having of kids). We've decided that we do want children but not now and not immediately after getting married either.
I've heard so many women (and men) claim that they want to travel and see the world before settling down with kids. I don't blame them at all. For Stephen and I, we have two dogs that we are extremely attached to and we are working on creating our fortress of solitude to our liking. Travel isn't very high on our bucket list. Sure, it would be nice to have vacations, but we live in Florida, so we don't have to travel far to "get away". Anywhere else just costs a fortune. We have steady (well paying) jobs and we own our home. We know the lifestyle of being tethered to our home by our precious furry kids, so it should stand to reason that we could at any moment be conceiving a child.
I can't speak for my other half (although he says he wants to try in another three years or so) but for me, I just want to hold out a little longer. I can't exactly pinpoint the reasons why. It could be that I'm not ready for the post-pregnancy body changes because lets be honest, I haven't yet recovered from the teenage trauma, the birth control trauma, and college weight gain trauma that it has already been through. It could be that I have a deep respect for the 24/7/365 job of motherhood and my self-esteem says that I wouldn't fit in with such heroes (yet). It could be that my heart tells me that life may be short, but my head tells me to slow down and enjoy the views. I've always felt that if you rush into all that life has to offer before 30, promotions, homeownership, marriage, kids, etc...then what is left to look forward to? I guess what I'm trying to ask is...why not? When all the tangible needs that a child could ask for have been met, (aka when the planets have aligned) what other reasons besides 'travel' are there to wait?
P.S.-We don't have pressure from family or friends. Actually it is quite the opposite, they say "Recreation, not Procreation"
Sincerly,
-Jennifer
Orlando, FL
Ok. So. This is going to be a multi-layered answer from me, not to mention the thousand other layers the rest of you are going to add.
First, I’ve been somewhat surprised since our wedding by how tightly we still tie new marriage with new kids. I knew that once we got married, people might start asking us about kids, sure. But what I didn’t get is that there seems to be a powerful tie in our collective (even our indie collective) brains between being married and having kids. I didn’t forsee how many friends would have kids shortly after tying the knot (not that it’s a bad thing, quite the contrary, more cute babies for me to eat). Failing to realize this might make me a little slow, but it probably makes me a halfway decent person to answer this question (because in my surprise, I've had to think a lot about it).
David and I didn’t get married because we wanted kids. We didn’t get married because we thought the time was almost right for kids. We got married because we thought it was about time to get hitched already. Full stop. We’ve always been pretty darn sure that we DO want kids, and we had the general sense that we’d like the wedding before the kids, but that was as far as we’d thought it through. So when after the wedding I realized lots of people around me were thinking BABY,* instead of wedding, I got… a little unnerved. Even if you do have a baby right after a wedding, they are two totally discrete events, yes?
Because here is the thing: I think a good reason to have kids is that the time feels about right for kids (or you have a happy accident), and a good reason to get married is that the time feels about right to get married. I think we make a mistake (and I’m including myself in this) when we read marriage as pressure to have kids. Because really? They are two very different things.
So. When do I think it’s the right time to have kids? Since I haven’t done it myself yet, I’m only offering relatively well-pondered thoughts, but I’ve got them in spades (of course).When the pressure is on for kids, you suddenly hear a lot of people saying, “There is no right time,” and “you’ll never feel ready.” Maybe. But I’m going to say this: while there might not ever be a perfect time, there is definitely a wrong time. If you don’t feel ready for kids, for goodness sakes – happy accidents aside – wait. I’ve found over the course of 30 years that when it’s time for a big life transition, you start feeling little whispers and nudges from the universe/subconscious/God/whatever. It doesn’t feel perfect, but it usually feels good enough. If your subconscious is telling you, “Um. No. Check back in a few.” Go have some beers, or a dip in the pool, or some graduate school, and then check back.
Beyond that, I thought I’d take on an adage that I’ve heard A LOT. I’ve heard it bandied about by smart women in the comments, and smart women in my life, but I’m not sure I agree. It’s the, “You’ll know you’re ready to have kids when you can’t think of anything else. When all you can think of is BABY BABY BABY, then you know. That’s the kind of person that is ready to be a mother.” This sounds so wise, right? Yeah. But I’m not so sure it’s true.
When I was 16 my baby hormones turned on, HARD. I had a case of baby obsession unlike anything you’ve ever seen. I mean, I’ve always loved kids. I’ve been slinging them on my hip since I was big enough to carry them (literally). I’m a baby person. But being a baby person is totally different from entering the land of baby hormones. When my baby hormones turned on I would get dizzy when I saw a baby in the street. I could not talk about anything but the baby until they were out of my sight. I am not joking about this – BABIES MADE MY OVERIES HURT. You know that thing that was said in the comments about how one day you wake up and you want a baby so much it feels like it’s a chocolate cake in the fridge and you would claw through the fridge door to get it? Right. The day I woke up like that I was 16 years old. And it lasted for ten years, right till I was 26. And then it turned off. I still love babies. I mean, I adore babies. If you bring your baby to my house, you get the night off. I will carry the baby, calm the baby down when it fusses, and feed the baby. No joke. But I no longer would claw through a fridge to get the baby like it was chocolate cake. I no longer think baby baby baby. Babies no longer make my ovaries hurt (thank God). That was hormones.
I have friends that had babies in their early 20’s, to feed their baby obsession. Some of them would make different choices if they could have a do it over. It's not that they don't love their kids, it's that the timing of their kids turned out to be really hard. I didn’t have a baby during my baby obsession period, and I’m pretty d*amn glad about it.
What am I saying? I’m saying that one day, you might check back in with your psyche, and your psyche might say, “Huh. Baby. Yeah, that might be a good idea. That’s something I’d rationally consider.” But there might be no, “BABYBABYBABYBABY AHHHHHHHH!!!” Ladies. That’s fine. The calmly planned motherhood and the oh-my-god-oops motherhood can be equally as good as the I-would-kill-for-a-baby motherhood. I know. I’ve seen it for myself.
And you know what? You might check back in with your psyche and it might say, “No baby!” Or maybe you didn’t even read this post because you already knew that you were a no baby kind of girl. That’s fine. That’s awesome. Because no matter how often the media says, “wife and mother,” like the two always go together, they are two totally different things. Being a wife doesn’t mean you have to be a mother. Just like being a mother doesn’t mean you have to be a wife. And being a mother is not the same as being a wife, even when you are both. Pinky swear.
Oh, and P.S. -
All week I kept rolling the sentence, “I've heard so many women (and men) claim that they want to travel and see the world before settling down with kids.” in the rock tumbler of my brain. You know, while I was traveling. And it just didn’t sound right. And finally I realized, we’re not waiting to have kids so we can travel, we’re traveling because we know we want to have kids one day (and we want to get in to the habit). And those are two totally different things. Travel should never been your excuse for waiting, because waiting needs no excuse. In fact, lets stop calling it waiting, and just call it, “Yeah. We don’t have kids right now.”
*Just to be clear, our families have never pressured us for kids. This is sort of the collective "people around us" not the specific "our family."
I feel like sometimes, we don’t really discuss what happens when you have a miscommunication with your SO. Like, a big one, about a subject you thought you were totally in sync on. I spent a good deal of the time we were dating with my BABYBABYBABY hormones going full speed ahead, and it got to be something of a joke that I would reference the hormones, and Zack would say “No babies!” For real. It was funny, and got laughs from everyone we knew. And I was fine with no babies. I mean. My hormones weren’t. But I was.
Then some friends of ours had a baby, right before our wedding, and in a conversation about them one night, I said something to the affect of, “If everyone waited to feel like they could afford having a baby, no one ever would.” I wasn’t trying to say that WE should have a baby. There is a difference between feeling like you can afford a baby and feeling like you can afford to support yourselves. We’re still in the struggling to support ourselves stage, where jobs are uncertain and wages are, in all honestly, far too low to really make me comfortable. I knew that was how Zack felt, and it was how I felt too, despite my hormones telling me BABYBABYBABY.
I don’t know for sure if me saying that determined Zack’s feelings on the matter. And so you all know, our method of protection has always been the pull-out method, which has a fairly high failure rate in comparison to every other form of birth control out there. It was what worked for us, and we both knew the risk we were taking. But, well. There was another area of misconception between us, too.
I thought Zack said “No babies” because we weren’t ready yet. But apparently, despite being very adamantly non-religious, he felt pretty strongly about being married before having children. So we got married, 10 weeks ago Saturday. And as of next Tuesday, I’ll be 10 weeks pregnant. Not because our method of birth control failed, but because we (he) didn’t use it. Because he thought that was what I wanted. Because my hormones told me that was what I wanted. And because we hadn’t discussed what would be the right time for children. He said “No babies”, and I felt the same, but I never told him that because I assumed he knew I was just hormonal.
I know we’ll be great parents. I wouldn’t give up this baby for the world. And we have since discussed that we might not have been clear with one another about exactly what we wanted in this area. It hasn’t had a terrible impact on our relationship. But… it’s made me think. About what I might have really wanted, if my hormones hadn’t been gratified. About the grad school we couldn’t have afforded for me this fall anyway, but might have been able to consider for the spring. About the health insurance we still don’t have. About the house we could have started saving for sooner. About the jobs I probably won’t get now, because employers don’t want to hire a pregnant woman.
I don’t hate being pregnant. I don’t hate that I’m having a baby. But… well. I’ll probably always regret the timing. And that’s hard, because I’m supposed to be happy. This is supposed to be a joyful time. And it isn’t.
August 27, 2010 10:39 am
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I suppose you might wish you felt happier about it, but I don’t think you’re supposed to feel anything specifically. I know know know know how hard it is to actually do this, but try just feeling what you feel and say that that’s okay, that you’re okay and try just focusing on the present, because worries are almost always about things that don’t exist and would happen in the future anyway if they ever become reality.
I know you didn’t ask for advice, but I couldn’t help but offer some in the off chance that it’d help you feel better.
And thank you for sharing your story. Everyone’s stories on here make me not feel so alone with all of my crazy emotions on the whole topic.
August 30, 2010 11:54 am
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This comment got me thinking about something I read — I find it curious that people often feel guilty for not wanting to have children… Or sometimes even the word SELFISH comes up…
But what about feeling guilty for wanting to have children?? I mean, really, what is the purpose of having children — to pass your genes on to future generations. I think that’s a little selfish right there. But not many people guilty for overrunning the planet with their children.
To be clear, I’m not saying that having children is a bad decision — it is true that the only reason that I exist is because my mom decided to become a mother. For that I am grateful and feel very loved. But creating the next generation is a personal decision. I’ve got one life, and it’s up to me to live it and to become the person that I want to be. That could involve children OR no children and both decisions would be equally right.
August 27, 2010 12:10 pm
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Coming from a family that included diplomats, the “travel before kids” mentality always makes me laugh. Going into the same career, it’s not even a question – our kids will be going everywhere we do. Hell, there are some trips I’m putting off until after we have kids, because I know how much they’ll love them!
August 27, 2010 12:23 pm
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Well, I don’t think we’re really promoting the travel before kids mentality…
August 27, 2010 9:41 pm
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Thanks for this great post. I always feel like I have a safe space here to express ideas that are not always mainstream about marriage and motherhood. Yes, the cultural noise and pressure is amazing. Me and my husband are constantly asked by our friends and family WHEN we’re going to start a family (ahem, we ARE a family and oh yeah, let’s not overlook the assumption that we will have them at all) and WHEN we are having children. It is a tad frustrating because while my husband desires children, I am not really sure I do and I do not feel entirely comfortable disabusing people of the notion that I may not want motherhood.
August 27, 2010 3:45 pm
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I would just like to say that: (1) reading through these comments with a glass of wine has been a great way to spend some of my rare time off; and (2) To all the people who like the idea of babies, but not older children: You are thinking about it in the abstract, but your babies will be real. By the time they are children, they will be actual people with their own individual personalities, and you will appreciate and love them on their own merits, regardless of their developmental stage.
August 28, 2010 2:00 am
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I’ve read through a bunch of the comments above (but admittedly not all of them, so I apologize if there is any overlap!)
First off, I have NEVER been a baby person. I’m not a fan of the shrieking, the inability to communicate fairly instantaneously, and various other things. And while many people (some of my family and future in-laws included) have said that this may just be a phase and that “you might change your mind!” I am fairly skeptical about this.
But I do understand that some people genuinely adore the thought of raising kids. So despite my lack of BABYBABYBABY thoughts constantly running through my head, I would suggest you wait for a couple of reasons. One, make sure you want the baby, the toddler, the child, the teenager, the college student. Some of my friends seem to have not realized that babies don’t stay babies forever, and this probably seems totally obvious, but it never hurts to think long term.
Also, babies are a significant financial investment. This might not apply to Jennifer’s situation, but I recently calculated out approximately how much I would have to save per month to raise one child to age 18 (excluding college). It works out to around $1200/month, which I would rather put toward trips volunteering around the world or paying off the mortgage. So my second piece of advice is to think about finances and mentally prepare yourself for that.
And lastly, but maybe most importantly, my fiancee and I decided early on that if we were having kids, it wouldn’t be until at least 28, maybe 29 (I’m 20 right now, and my fiancee is 22). Our reasoning is that we want to have time to enjoy ourselves, to enjoy being married and not having to worry about kids interrupting our privacy. Also, having some time to live with each other is going to give us a long time to adjust to living with each other and figuring out how to run a house jointly. The last thing I want is to be waking up to take care of the baby at 3 AM, walk out into the kitchen, and find that there are ants crawling around because dirty dishes were left overnight.
In some ways, it’s like a chick flick: the whole movie is about the anticipation of getting together, the build-up of excitement as you get to know each other. The movie ends once the couple is together. But when you get married, while you might not change drastically as people, the dynamic is different. So I would take some time to enjoy it, because you’re at a great part of your life now!
August 28, 2010 3:04 am
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The right time to have a kid is when you feel like having one. I was also one of those people who felt the need to do a lot of stuff before even considering in settling down. and at 28 I had my first baby. It was the most wonderful thing in the world when I first held him in my hands. And I guess the maturity I had with taking care of my child is because I know I am ready and really wanting to have him in my life.
August 29, 2010 10:16 am
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One thing I struggled with before I got married is that I’ve had so few role models of successful, happy women with children, I didn’t know whether it would be possible to have a family and still retain any sort of personal identity or happiness. All the women in my family skipped educations and got straight to marriage and having children. And complaining about it. A lot. That being said, I don’t mean to imply that the women in my family aren’t amazing, resourceful, and otherwise fantastic people that I admire in a multitude of ways. But over the past few years, I’ve begun to have a minor crisis about whether it’s even possible to be a woman and to be well-adjusted as a person after getting married and having children–in my world, I haven’t seen a lot of that. However, I’m just now getting out into the world at the beginning of a career of my own (my husband and I are both under 25 and I’m just about finished with school) and I’m starting to see a few examples of women who are married with children that don’t seem to feel they’ve sacrificed their whole lives for The Cause of family. That doesn’t mean they don’t get stressed out or that their lives are perfect, but it’s reassuring. What still remains scary is that I can’t distinguish why these women have adjusted better to having children than the women in my own family. What separates us? Any ideas?
August 30, 2010 7:15 pm
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I’m having the ‘BABYBABYBABYBABY’. It’s sort of the first time. (I’m 24)
When I was like 13, I had it. But I wasn’t stupid and I knew it was hormones and I fought it and it went away.
But since then I’ve had the desperate ‘I WANT KIDS’ but this is the first time it’s ‘I WANT A BABY’. I always liked kids, you know, ones that can have a conversation for you. I liked watching ‘Adoption Stories’ on tv, and didn’t understand why people would watch like ‘Baby Diaries’ and stuff instead (there are exactly two adoption shows on cable, and they only get like two new episodes a year it seems like. There are like two dozen baby shows, and I never understood why. I mean, adoption is all the good emotions without the screaming and the blood.)
But the reason why it’s BABYBABYBABYBABYBABY right now is because my friends are starting to have babies for the first time. I did have a 16 year old friend in high school, but that didn’t set anything off. But since then, none of my CLOSE friends (tons of my peripheral friends, if you know what I mean, but none of my it’s not weird to call up for no real reason friends). But two of my friends just had a baby Friday. And one of my two very best friends is two months along. And my best friend from high school is four months along. And my other best friend’s older sister is three months along.
And all I can think is BABYBABYBABYBABYBABY. And WEDDINGWEDDINGWEDDING, actually. Also HOUSEHOUSEHOUSE. Hahaha. But the wedding and the house were already there. Actually, I confess I’m not engaged. I have BEEN engaged before, and found I liked reading wedding sites and planning. And I’m in a relationship that I am 98% positive will result in marriage. He and I talk about it like every other day, as like a foregone conclusion. But we’re not rushing it (from our perspective). But when you say, yeah me and my boyfriend of less then a year were discussing wedding invitation styles and baby names, people stare at you. But I’m one of those people who thinks about things wayyy before they happen, and in a lesser way, so is he. Actually, the other day he was asking if I was going to be in the delivery when my friend delivered and I said no, probably the first time I’ll be in the delivery room will be with my own kids, and maybe the next would be if we had a daughter and she was having a baby and he started laughing and said, ‘oh, so you’re thinking about grandkids already?’ hahaha (he thought it was cute)
September 1, 2010 4:20 am
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It’s been a few days, but I still felt compelled to post a comment. Because, omg, Meg, you get me! This is a post for me. Holy cow, have I had baby fever for most of my life. I, too, love babies. And even more than babies, I love little kids. I mean, bring your 3 year old to the park with me, and you can go have a manicure, get a latte, go have happy hour, whatever. We’re chill.
But recently I’ve been wondering and thinking. My hormones aren’t quite as a raging. I’m 28, and a little part of me goes “woah, kids are a big commitment!” I still want them . . . but it’s not so overwhelming.
And, yes, my ovaries used to ache too. They still do at the right time of the month. But mostly I just genuinely like kids, look forward to having them, and am no longer so rabid about it.
Oh, and regarding traveling: you can still travel with kids. and they will remember it! My first trip abroad was when I was 6. My brothers were 8 and 4, and our parents took us to Guatemala. We slept on my uncle’s floor and only brought two suitcases between 5 of us. Heck, we drove from Omaha to Houston to save money. It was a budget trip. But it was awesome! I distinctly remember a lot about that trip. I learned Spanish in our two weeks there (and still speak it, though not as well). And even my little bro remembers bits and pieces. We went back again when we were 6, 8, and 10 (I was 8). Still awesome! And none of us have stopped traveling since. My parents have taken the occasional trip on their own, and we travel on our own, but every five years or so we try to do a big family trip. If you love to travel, truly love it, you will find a way to make it work with kids.
September 3, 2010 7:13 pm
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I don’t usually say this, although this post is outstanding. I have been browsing Yahoo and google all day for a respectable post on the toxic dump of duplicated and thieved information that the Web has become and then I finally come to this, this website is the breath of refreshing air that I needed this morning.
December 27, 2011 1:44 pm
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