After talking about kids and deciding when to have them, I said that this week we'd take on NOT wanting kids. So here we go. Obviously this is a complex and many faceted subject, but here our first crack at it:
Dear Meg,
I wonder how familiar this scene is to married APWers:
Well-meaning but infuriating family member/friend/stranger : "So when are you starting a family?"
Me: "I've been married for three years. I already have a family; it just doesn't have any kids in it"
WMBAFMFS: *vacant expression*
I don't want children. Neither does my husband. I don't like kids. I like adult pastimes and adult conversation. I'm awkward and uninterested around babies, toddlers, tweens and teenagers.
But I have a funny feeling in my stomach.
I think it's the feeling of injustice at the way my childless marriage is viewed by others as incomplete. I think it's genuine rage that our decision is looked upon with distrust and distain. That our marriage is viewed as pointless if children aren't to follow.
But maybe it's broodiness. And maybe I'm afraid of that because of what it would mean for us, our life and our relationship. The thought of loving something more than I do my husband is terrifying to me. Although not as terrifying as him loving someone else more than he loves me.
I'm paralysed by the fear of making a mistake. Will I reach 40 and wake up every day next to my husband wishing we'd had a child, or wishing that we hadn't? I'm not sure if this is even a real dilemma, or just a projection of the expectations of others.
I wonder if you have any insight.
Warm regards,
Laura, UK
Ok. First of all. I just want to state for the record, and for all of us, how much I detest the phrase, "start a family," when applied to kids. I remember the very first time I heard it. It was back when I was first dipping my toes in the Reclaiming Wife waters, and people were getting riled up. I mentioned something about not wanting kids right away, and someone left an angry comment that said, "Well, I guess the difference is that some of us think marriage is about starting a family, and some of us don't."
And my head exploded.
Because REALLY??? I'm sorry, what's getting married? Just chopped liver? Just a prelude to getting knocked up? It makes me livid. Every time I hear someone use the phrase, 'Start a family,' I want to snap, "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that's what I just did. You know, when I got married?" Or as my friend and APW commenter Marisa-Andrea says (slightly less angrily) "I think there is a lot of cultural noise that tells us your marriage isn't a real marriage until you have children. There really isn't anything between the wedding and babies in terms of models. And I wonder, how can marriage be rich and meaningful without those culturally prescribed big events (having a baby, buying a house)?"
So in that sense, I see each childless marriage as part of the fight to make all of our our marriages more valuable, to help show that being married is something different than having kids. That being a wife is a different thing than being a mother.
Second. The fear of being childless being a mistake. As I thought about this over and over in the last week, what I came back to is the lesson that we all learn planning our weddings. The wedding industry is based on our fear of regret - if we don't do XYZ, we'll regret it, so we better do it just in case. And what I learned during the planning is that you almost never regret following your heart (or gut), but you almost always regret doing something just because to were told that you had to. I learned that a firm, "No," when something isn't right for you, spares you endless heartache. And I think the cultural noise around having kids is similar, "DO IT OR YOU'LL REGRET IT." Which, first of all, is hardly a compelling reason to bring a human into the world, and second of all, is not true. We regret not being ourselves, we don't regret not living the life we were expected to live.
And finally. Selfish. For that, I wanted to quote Elizabeth Gilbert's Committed, in what is hands down my favorite passage about not having children, ever. I can't fit it all in here, so maybe you want to get the book and flip to page 109, but this is the best part about 'the consistent 10% of women within any population that never have children at all' (though, the rate swings from 10%-50%, it interestingly never dips below 10%):
All too often, those of us who choose to remain childless are accused of being somehow unwomanly or unnatural or selfish, but history teaches us that there have always been women who went through life without having babies. ... The number of women throughout history who never became mothers is so high (so consistently high) that I now suspect that a certain degree of female childlessness is an evolutionary adaptation of the human race. ... Childless women have always run orphanages and schools and hospitals. They are midwives and nuns and providers of chartiy. They heal the sick and teach the arts and often they become indispensable on the battlefield of life. Literally, in some cases. (Florence Nightingale comes to mind.) ...
Such childless women - let's call them the "Auntie Brigade" - have never been very well honored by history, I'm afraid. They are called selfish, frigid, and pathetic. Here's one particularly nasty bit of conventional wisdom circulating out there about childless women that I need to dispel here, and that is this: that women who have no children may live liberated and happy and wealthy lives when they are young, but they will ultimately regret that choice when they reach old age, for they shall die alone and depressed and full of bitterness. Perhaps you've heard this old chestnut? Just to set the record straight: There is zero sociological evidence to back this up. ...
Even within my own community, I can see where I have been vital sometimes as a member of the Auntie Brigade. My job is not merely to spoil and indulge my nice and nephew (though I do take that assignment to heart) but also to be a roving auntie to the world - an ambassador auntie - who is on hand wherever help is needed, in anybody's family whatsoever. There are people I've been able to help, sometimes fully supporting them for years, because I am not obliged, as a mother would be obliged, to put all my energies and resources into the full-time rearing of a child. There are a whole bunch of Little League uniforms and orthodontist's bills and college educations that I will never have to pay for, thereby freeing up resources to spread more widely across the community. In this way, I, too, foster life. There are many, many ways to foster life. And believe me, every single one of them is essential.
This is not to say that you need to make up for not having kids by being Mother Teresa. Not at ALL. You don't have to make up for not having kids, period. But it is true that we all have limited resources in this world. We have limited time, money, and energy. When we have children, a lot of those resources get focused (rightfully) in one area - on a few lives. When we don't have children (permanently or temporarily) we can use those resources on other projects. We can spread our focus. And that's a fantastic thing, for us and for society (even when society is too short sighted to see it that way).
Or as commenter Marina said last week:
As someone who’s sure I want kids, and soon (I mean, scared sh*tless, but sure) I just want to add that I am SO GRATEFUL that I have friends who want kids but not for a long time, and friends who do not want kids ever, period. I have friends in the first category who have told me they’re looking forward to babysitting duties and knitting little baby clothes, which, oh boy, I would be a LOT more scared about having kids if I didn’t have that kind of community around. And my friends in the second category, who do not want babies, who will never want babies–I am so thankful for them. I don’t want to get lost in my child(ren), and I feel so lucky to have people in my life who I know I will be able to hang out with and talk about things that are NOT related to babies. So all y’all who are decidedly against babies, or ambivalent, or all the other messy permutations of decision-making–I’m glad YOU’RE part of my community too. I know having lots of smart sassy women I can read at a moment’s notice will make me a better mom, and is already making me a better person.
So selfish? No. Let's replace selfish with vital.
PS I know this isn't technically about not having kids, but I'm really uncomfortable with the cultural assumption that we automatically love our kids more than our partner. If having kids meant that I'd love someone more than my husband, and he'd love someone more than me, I'm pretty sure I'd be out. But I think we love our children totally differently (and hopefully not more) than our partners or ourselves. As always, the been there done that Cate of Project Subrosa can speak to this better than me, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Great, great post and discussion, everyone. It’s interesting because all the way up to getting married, I thought that this debate would be a non-issue for me. Jason and I both agreed that we wanted kids… eventually. Like 6 or more years down the line, once I’m out of grad school. We wanted to lay a foundation as a J-and-S-as-couple before we became J-and-S-as-parents and I’m lucky enough to be entering academia at an age where that kind of thinking/timelining is possible.
But you know, since getting married (and it hasn’t even been a month), I’ve been feeling veeeeery ambivalent about the idea of kids. Part of it is that our schedules suddenly picked up and it feels like we barely have enough time with each other, much less the idea of throwing children into the mix. Part of it is that nothing feels like it’s missing from our vibrant relationship right now. NOT that “something is missing” is the only or even a legitimate reason for having children… it’s just that it’s become harder to picture how having kids could make us happier than we are now.
I’m open to changing my mind (again and again); I’m sure when more of our friends start having kids I’ll revisit this subject. But right now I’m in the “not now, maybe not ever, but we’ll see” camp. (It strikes me that this comment maybe belongs more with last week’s post. Oops.)
September 1, 2010 11:34 am
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Love this post. And since I didn’t read all the comments yet, someone may have already said this, but I love “auntie brigade”!
September 1, 2010 11:35 am
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My friends love to point out that I DID “want” kids when I was younger. And not only did I “want” kids, but I “wanted” FOUR of them. This is all true, I DID say that I wanted four kids ALL THE TIME.
But that was when I was 16, when I was still under the impression that EVERYONE had kids, and the only question that needed to be answered was HOW MANY? So I said four, and justified it thusly: only children are always selfish assholes (untrue), I came from a family with 2 children and it sucked, so having two children myself would suck (also untrue), and three children would suck because the middle child would be a Jan Brady style basket case (still untrue).
Then I realized my assumption that most scenarios involving children would “suck” was a pretty good indicator that maybe I just plain didn’t want them.
So now, when people point out that once upon a time I “wanted” children, I point out that once upon a time, I also wanted to marry CC Deville and have a unicorn.
September 1, 2010 11:53 am
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Ha! I love that — the idea that if your choices about kids are all rooted in how much they suck and how to work around that, probably not a great idea to have any.
September 1, 2010 12:32 pm
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Just a quick thought.
As little girls we would sing, on the playgrounds, the following:
First comes love;
Then comes marriage;
Then comes (so and so) with the baby carriage.
Is it possible to disassociate the word marriage with baby carriage? I think so. And, everyone on here, with your amazing posts, is proving that it can be done. Well done.
September 1, 2010 11:55 am
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OMG We need new songs for kids.
Also, remind me never to teach anyone’s kids this crap, ever.
September 1, 2010 12:18 pm
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First comes love,
then cohabitation,
then an MBA and a kickass PlayStation.
Better? :)
September 2, 2010 2:15 pm
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Awesome!! I’d way rather have the kids in my life chanting about higher education and mutual interests :) That’s a plan for life if I ever heard one.
September 3, 2010 12:03 pm
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The whole “starting a family” phrase having to mean that a couple has children makes me so agitated. I know several people have already voiced their frustration, but I wanted to add my voice to the mix. (I actually told a friend this just yesterday.) When you get married, you have a family: you + your spouse. (Not to mention your family of origin and your partner’s, which you inherit.) And there are so many definitions of family anyway (which Ms Loaf just reminded me of); why does it only have to equal parents + child(ren)? I think that an acceptance of a wider definition of “family” could go a long way in making it less shocking that people decide to not have kids.
I don’t mean to sound like I’m ranting; I just got all riled up about this. And I’m one of those who *does* want children. Maybe not right this minute, but one day we want some. Until then, I’m perfectly happy being part of the Auntie Brigade (love that concept!); especially as someone who had (and has) some fabulous aunts.
September 1, 2010 12:21 pm
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I would be interested in finding a word that means “you are legally tied to this person, like it or not, for 18 years, and after that you still have to make a lot of effort if you don’t want to be legally tied to them”. I guess more of a legal definition of family than a social definition.
September 1, 2010 12:34 pm
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I agree and I think the reason the word “family” connotes adult(s) + child(ren) might be how the word “few” means three and “couple” means two. Dictionary definitions all state that it’s some combination of adult(s) + child(ren). Of course this can also mean extended relations, like the family of origin. I think this is why I feel odd calling my fiance and myself a “family.” I wouldn’t say we’re a “few” people either.
But I agree with you… There’s a lot more behind the word “family” than just the dictionary definition and that is what we’re talking about. The idea that one can’t be complete without a child. I’d like to be able to state that, as a couple, we’re a complete unit and aren’t waiting for something to make us so.
September 1, 2010 7:29 pm
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I so appreciate seeing so many other women who have have chosen not to have children or are ambivalent about the idea. I just wish that this was discussed more widely in the rest of the world where clearly the norm is still ‘get married and immediately start having children.’ Which is great if that’s what you want but a really frustrating construct to deal with if you don’t.
Growing up I just always assumed I would have kids because that’s what you do. My college boyfriend and talked about what our kids would be like and it wasn’t until after college when I was single that it first occurred to me that I did not actually have to have children. And not only that, but I was allowed not to. It’s so strange looking back because I consider myself to be a very independently minded person but not having kids had never even occurred to me until a friend mentioned that she and her husband weren’t planning to have any and I actually thought “wait a minute! You can do that?”
In the time since then I’ve taken the stance that I wasn’t ever going to push for kids but if I fell in love with someone who really did want them, I could compromise. When I signed up for an online dating service a couple of years ago, I marked “maybe” under “wants to have kids” mainly because I worried I’d reduce my options too much if I said “no.” Then I met my boyfriend. Who absolutely does not want children. Who doesn’t have a clue what to do with them. Who thinks my new nephew is weird looking (he’s not — he’s absolutely adorable — how dare my boyfriend not see how cute he is! And yet I find it amusing that he sheepishly admitted that while my nephew was fascinating much like watching a kitten would be, really he’s kind of weird looking.) And I was relieved. I wasn’t going to have to ‘compromise’ and have kids that I didn’t really, really, really want. And somehow that really has allowed me to be honest with myself. I think before, I was hesitant to list all the reasons I didn’t want kids just in case I did end up having some and had to eat my words.
But now I watch commercials and think, huh, I don’t need a huge life insurance policy to take care of the kids I won’t have. I think about how much of a responsibility my cats are and how sometimes I hate having to plan trips around their needs and obviously planning around a child is that much more difficult and I would probably resent that. I think about how I’m so super introverted that I need large amounts of time away from even my boyfriend who is even more quiet and introverted than me to decompress and how a child wouldn’t understand that mommy needs so much time alone (I’m not talking about normal amounts of ‘mommy time’ which everyone would need — I mean I need hours and hours of alone time). I think about how much I love my new nephew but how I couldn’t handle the responsibility of another life for 18 years (or more). And I think about how much I love my boyfriend and how (somewhat irrationally) I worry about something happening to him. If I had children I would be a nervous wreck all the time. Because I’m a worrier. And since meeting him I have a much better understanding of my mom’s anxieties about her kids’ safety and health while we were going up (and even today). And I don’t think I could handle that.
And maybe that last reason is a selfish reason for not having kids (I just can’t handle the stress) but I also know my own strengths and weaknesses and I don’t think they would be conducive to raising a child. And that’s fine. I just wish there were more conversations about this so that people who don’t want children don’t have to feel like they need to justify their choice. People who want children aren’t constantly asked to justify or defend why they want children (which was my response the one time someone asked me why I didn’t want them and interestingly, they had no clue why they wanted children). I think that the norm will probably always be to have children, particularly if you’re married, but it’s nice to see the other options being discussed here.
September 1, 2010 12:26 pm
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Yes, I relate. I NEED tons of alone time to decompress. I even have a hard time relaxing after coming home from a party. Being around lots of people and activity is something I can only take in small doses.
Then there’s anxiety. Years ago, I read a blog where people were talking about their parental anxieties. One woman said when her children were small, she’d think about the knives in the drawer, and then become so scared – as if the knives were going to jump out of the drawer and go down the hall and stab her children.
I keep moving knives off the kitchen island because one of my cats jumps up on it. I instantly notice dangerous objects around the house and get mad if other people carelessly leave them around.
As I said in my first post, I am a helicopter pet owner and would probably be a helicopter parent. ;)
September 1, 2010 1:08 pm
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I love that APW is tackling such gritty issues. I think my comment on last week’s kid related post summed it up for me, but yes, I have to say — I despise the “You have to or you’ll regret it”. Despise it so much my fists clench up and I could swing…
Speaking of which, we were away this weekend at our best man and his wife’s home, visiting friends and thoroughly enjoying ourselves with a big group of people at a bbq (the booze was flowing) when another older couple some how brought up our impending nuptials, quickly followed by the “Oooh then you can have kids” comment. Typically I’ve learned to just bite my tongue half the time because really, it’s no one’s business and why do I need to tell two people I just met that we’re really not sure what we want?! Instead, because of aforementioned booze, we both kind of snickered and said “um yeah, we’ll see”. After we were prodded to explain a bit more, we quickly got a “Oh no. You have to have at least one. To not, would just be a dumbass move”.
I kid you not. “dumbass”. I went through a range of emotions in 30 seconds flat. But the bottom line, as mentioned here, is how can someone dare to tell someone that their marriage, their “Family” isn’t legit without kids?? Do people really honestly not realize how hurtful, ignorant and idiotic this is? What about the many people who (for whatever reason) are unable to have kids? How do you think it makes them feel every time you rush to say “Oh! When are you having kids?” As if children are the only reason for your life and your marriage and you have no right to any of it if you don’t procreate!
So yes, we’re still torn and go back and forth between no and yes on a regular basis, but for our OWN reasons. I refuse to be bullied into it or made to feel worse (or better) depending on what we decide to do.
September 1, 2010 12:27 pm
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How many people would tell someone they made a “dumbass move” for having a kid?
September 1, 2010 1:08 pm
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Can I say there’s been times where I’ve thought it? In the vein of “What?! No condom?! You have no idea of the STD panel or pregnancy risk on this one night stand…that was a dumbass move!”
Needless to say, I do not even think of this when seeing the child resulting from this, but still.
I know, horrible.
September 2, 2010 12:16 pm
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oh, I have wanted to say that several times . . .
September 8, 2010 5:55 pm
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“‘You have to have at least one.’”
Something similar was said to my husband by a work colleague. I think the exact words were, “But you need to have one to try it out.”
Excuse me? I missed the part about there being return policies on children. And in this case, the difference between 0 and 1 is an enormity, not just one digit.
My husband and I have a suspected genetic chance for a pretty serious disease should we have kids, but we haven’t bothered to get testing because we prefer to be an aunt and uncle to all of our friends’ kids. I must say that dropping the genetic disease thing usually shuts up the rude and nosy people who inquire about our family planning, although it really is only one small part of our reasoning. It’s sad that people can accept the disease reasoning gracefully but all of our other well-reasoned thoughts and equally valid thoughts are questioned.
September 1, 2010 7:33 pm
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Thank you for fixing my spelling. :)
September 1, 2010 12:39 pm
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My head, too, explodes whenever me and Chris are asked that question. We ARE a family. It irks me that some of our friends and family do not view our marriage as valid or legitimate because we do not have children. Interestingly, though, our marriage WOULD be legit if we couldn’t have children; not so if we choose not to.
What I also find interesting is that concomitant with the “your marriage is not legitimate if you don’t have children” trend is also the idea that WHEN (not if) you have children, they must be your entire world. It seems inevitable that many people who view married couples choosing not to have children as selfish also promote the concept of helicopter and super parents. Because afterall, selfish parents are bad and no one wants to be labeled or feel like a bad parent.
It’s all nonsense.
September 1, 2010 1:17 pm
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There are so many wonderful comments on here I am not able to read them all right now, but just a little happy aside, which is probably totally out of context from the thread, but it refers to being a family just as a couple: We came home from our honeymoon Monday night (thanks Meg for reminding me months ago how important one would be!) and upon entering customs at JFK were told to fill out a customs declaration sheet…one per family. We each filled one out but when we approached the desk the man asked, are you married? We said yes, just last week, and he said, “well, you only need one per family then” and he threw the second one out. So there we have it. The United States customs department deems a couple a family! And you know, they work for the government and wear uniforms and stuff, I take their word for it :)
September 1, 2010 1:24 pm
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All the comments on this post and THIS one made me teary.
September 1, 2010 1:53 pm
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Last year coming back from our honeymoon we filled out two, since we have different last names and we got up there and they said, “Newlyweds, huh?” and tossed one. This year, coming back from Italy, we only filled out one. Sometimes being a family takes a little practice.
Congratulations lady. Wedding graduate time :)
September 1, 2010 2:21 pm
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that happened to us, too! and the guy was super fun about it. im sure it made me glow.
September 1, 2010 5:48 pm
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what is it about customs people?? the same exact thing happened to us, and the guy was awesome and made us feel ridiculously warm-n-fuzzy.
September 3, 2010 10:28 am
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Aw, this totally made me tear up.
September 2, 2010 7:25 am
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I remember having this conversation with my ex husband. Although we didn’t want children, he said we were not a family because we didn’t have them. He said we were a couple.
I said we were too a family! We agreed to disagree.
September 1, 2010 2:07 pm
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The pervasive idea that marriage is only for making babies is part of what frustrates me about the anti-gay marriage debate. The logic goes that if you can’t biologically have children then you have no business being married. It makes me crazy on behalf of my gay friends, my friends who don’t want children, and my parents who both remarried amazing people and formed wonderful partnerships after their child-wanting years were done. Those marriages are no less filled with love and commitment and no less inspirational to this hetero baby-wanter than a marriage that on paper looks more like my own.
Thanks for this post and all this great discussion.
September 1, 2010 2:17 pm
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And they don’t realize they’re really saying we might as well just shack up forever since we have no reason to get married. ;)
The sooner you don’t expect logic from people, the happier you will be. LOL
September 1, 2010 2:36 pm
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Now I know I’m a little late to the convo, and maybe someone else has already mentioned it. But for me having children is not just MY choice but my partner’s as well. He would prefer to not have kids, me, I’m 50/50. I know I don’t want them now, but I’m not saying never either. He says if it happens, it happens and if it did happen, I’d prefer we were older. Which I’m fine with, my parents had me at 38, I’m fine with being an “older” mother. But I’m still not 100% positive I want them. But I kind of wonder if that depended on who I married. For me, there is not one soul mate out there, I believe in different parts of the world there are people out there for you…and I wonder if I married someone else, and that someone else felt strongy about having children, would it sway my 50/50 position on kids. I’d say so. Right now the idea of kids kind of terrifies both of us, but if I were marrying someone who couldn’t wait to have a child and be a father, and raise a child, it might not scare me as much if someone were there to be the “stronger” one.
Not sure if any of that made sense, but there it is!! :) off to drink a glass of wine!
September 1, 2010 2:56 pm
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You made sense, coming from someone who was 50/50 myself, 50% definitely no kids and 50% maybe. I’ve made peace with the 50% maybe because of my husband’s strong feelings against having children, but it took time and lots of discussions.
September 1, 2010 7:39 pm
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Yes, total sense. I feel the same way. At this point I just don’t feel strongly enough to have a kid that I’d initiate it and I don’t know that I ever will.
September 2, 2010 5:11 am
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Ok…I was going to try and read all the brilliant things you ladies have to say, but when I read this post this morning, there were 34 comments. And we can all see where that went. So, I skipped around, caught a gem here and there (witty responses to the dreaded baby question? yes, please!). So, I’ll just jump in.
I don’t want kids. I never have. At family gatherings, when all the women are in one room oohing and ahhing over the newest addition, I’m in the kitchen, or on the porch, or gone to town to run errands…basically anywhere but in that room. I’m just awkward around infants and kids.
I’m also an only child. And my mother has also told me, repeatedly, that she would like five grand children, as if she can order them in the same way you order French toast or a new comforter. Like, “I raised you to adulthood, now pay up!”
And the offhanded comments!
“You should hurry up and get married, so you can get you some of these…” (meaning kids. We were 21 and 20 years old at the time.)
(FMIL talking about her retirement next year, her youngest daughter graduating college in four years, and her son (my fiance) finishing grad school about the same time.) “I mean, we can’t sell the house then. That’s usually when grandchildren start to arrive.
September 1, 2010 3:03 pm
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Um…ok, so I totally wasn’t done typing that.
Anyhow, the notion that grandchildren are something we owe the people who raised us is so warped. So is the idea that you, and your marriage, or even your pre-marriage partnership with someone is incomplete, half-full, and less important until you have kids.
And as someone who is 100% sure she doesn’t want to be pregnant, and 10% curious about adopting an “older” child, I also have half a mind to adopt a child of a different race, and present them with “their grandchild”. Our Southern-bred, lily white families would be so appalled, they would speak of grandchildren again.
September 1, 2010 3:14 pm
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what i LOVE (sarcastic) about the, “you should hurry up so you can make some babies!” comments is that these are the SAME people who find out you’re pregnant, and use every screaming-baby-opportunity to wink, “ready for this? you’re signing up for a lifetime of it!” type stuff.
WHICH IS IT, PEOPLE.
September 1, 2010 5:50 pm
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It’s so true – they’re also the people that try and commiserate about how they as women are always stuck with ALL the housework (uh, sorry lady, my guy does at least half of everything) and make all those blanket “all men are _____ (insert horrible stereotype of Cro-Magnon dude here)” statements…
What is it with people who hate on everything, and then expect you to join in their hate-fest? I only go to love-fests, jeez.
September 1, 2010 7:06 pm
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…and then they send you e-mail forwards with blinking .gifs in them.
September 2, 2010 2:07 pm
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yeah. yeah. in my office they actually have a term for that, they call it “the hates.” and they EMBRACE it. they love feeding off each others hateful feelings towards their husbands/babies/life in general. not that I think any one of them actually hates their husband or their babies, they just love being Negative about everything and i just can’t get behind that!
September 3, 2010 10:34 am
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Not 10 minutes after our wedding ceremony ended, as we walked into our reception, someone asked my husband and I when we would be having children. I think that was my only stressful/ b*tchy moment the whole day. I can’t even remember who the person was but I am pretty sure I said something along the lines of “You. Shut up. Now.”
I was someone who never wanted to have children, and had been saying so since I was 13. At that age, if I ever said “I’m never having kids” to an adult woman I was met with the answer “You’ll change your mind.” Which made me angry and only want to avoid having children even more (partly out of spite and to prove them wrong, I have to admit). When my husband and I met in college we were just friends for a long time. He would talk about a mythical point in the future when he would be a father and how he would raise his kids. This was all just in passing and part of other normal conversation. At some point I realized I was jealous of the hypothetical mother of these hypothetical children and that if he was ever a father to any children, I wanted to fill in the place of the hypothetical mother. Realizing I could change my mind about having children for him made me realize I loved him and that he was the one I wanted to be with.
But that is far from the only part of our relationship. I don’t ooh and aah over him and say “I want to have your babies.” We have a lot of other things in common, and he is my best friend in every other aspect of life. I am (we both are) still extremely hesitant about having kids. We want to do a lot of things in life that, to be blunt, babies/ kids would ruin. When people ask if/ when I want to have kids, my answer is “In ten years.” I’ve said “ten years” every year for the last four years.
I guess my point is, I see both sides. I wouldn’t have realized I wanted to marry my husband if I had not realized I could change my mind about children for him. But I hate the constant questions about when I’ll start popping out babies. I’m happy to play auntie to our nephew and let him be the only grandchild for many years to come.
September 1, 2010 3:37 pm
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Sarah,
Lol, I was also asked after the ceremony by several people when we were going to have children. It was strange.
September 1, 2010 6:14 pm
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“I don’t ooh and aah over him and say “I want to have your babies.””
I can soooo relate to this! Growing up, my mom asked me relentlessly whether I wanted to have kids, or, more presumptuously, how many kids I wanted. My answer was always the same. I’ve really never wanted kids. But she always insisted, “When you fall in love, that will change. You’ll want to raise a family with the one you love.”
Um….nope. It’s been four years, and my desire to have kids is still negligible, despite the fact that my love for him has grown exponentially. And, as everyone has already said, together, we are already a family. No extra members are required.
September 1, 2010 7:31 pm
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I’m kind of torn.
I don’t mind kids. By kids, I mean someone who I could help with homework, or kick a soccer ball around with.
But babies, not so interested. To me, they mostly scream and poop and throw up, with naps in between. I have tons of younger cousins, and while I love them when they start to become actual people and get hobbies and stuff, I really don’t care about babies.
Plus I’m terrified of childbirth, and if I’m working with pathogens (my primary career interest) I won’t be able to stay in my lab during pregnancy.
However, my fiance wants them, and badly. And he wants biological ones. So adoption is not an option in his eyes.
It’s frustrating.
September 1, 2010 5:21 pm
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Hmmm….I wonder if it’s okay to have babies and not be over the moon for them…sort of deal with it to get to the part you’re really excited about? I feel like there’s this story (that many moms have to go along with) that having babies is SO amazing and they LOVE parenting little ones. But recently, some of my friends have started coming clean about how they didn’t really enjoy those first few years, but LOVE being parents to their four, five, six year olds and are PSYCHED for the future.
So maybe there are solutions to get you through the baby years…daycare or hiring a nanny…that you haven’t considered?
September 1, 2010 8:19 pm
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My mom admits that while she had a great time raising me and my brother as babies/kids, she likes us SO MUCH MORE now, as thoughtful, responsible adults. As, “You know, real people.”
And if we have kids (which is unlikely, but I’m reserving the right to change my mind), I imagine I’d feel similarly.
September 2, 2010 8:26 am
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I have friends with kids who didn’t like the baby stage. Everyone has different stages they love. I am very hormonal about wee babies, so I’m fine there. I love 18 months. I love four years. I’m not a huge fan of 8-12ish. I love teens. Basically I adore any phase where they still let me pick them up, and I love teenagers because I think they are super interesting.
But as someone mentioned, when it’s your kids, its not abstract. Kids are just young people, and you love them for the person they are. So even if nine years old (or baby) isn’t your thing, you’re going to love them, since you love who they are, not their age. Also? Even in phases you love, they are going to drive you f*cking nuts. It’s their job.
Which is not to say you have to have kids, it’s just to say that it’s totally normal to not like babies.
September 2, 2010 9:05 am
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I love how different everyone is! 8-12 are my fave ages. I love teens too probably because I can relate to them. I think I still act like a teen sometimes (my first impulse is often to rebel.)
September 8, 2010 6:02 pm
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I was totally there. Well, not torn really. But about the kids v. babies. I liked a child old enough to be able to carry on a conversation with me. Babies.. eh. They were small, cute in a puppy way, but really not even as engaging as a puppy. I had the ‘when I have one, I’ll just get through that stage’ reaction.
Then my married friends G&J got pregnant. Then my best friend T got pregnant. Then my friend from high school H. And my friend L’s sister. And my cousin and his wife. And my friend J&D’s son had a baby (they’re older). And it goes on… (currently G&J’s baby was just born. The rest are still pregnant).
Suddenly, I like babies. A lot. They’re awesome. And I’m like whoa, where did this come from?
I still think I like kids better. But I’m surprised that now I like babies too.
(This doesn’t mean you have to have kids or something, lol, just telling you that it can change.)
Also, my younger sister never wants to give birth. She wants to adopt older kids from foster care, after she gets her PhD. And her fiance wants a biological baby. Bad.
So, before they got engaged they discussed and agreed. They’d adopt most of their children, but they’d pursue a surrogate mother, so she wouldn’t have to go through pregnancy (she has hormonally linked issues, including migraines that have lasted 60+ days!), but he could get his biological kid. They agreed on that. [PS. I read this and realized it sounds like they're going to have tons of kids. I think it'll be more like three. She really wants to adopt a sibling group, since they have less chance of being adopted, but probably she'll just adopt like two or maybe three, then the baby.]
I’m not saying that will work for you, just saying maybe think outside the box? If you want them. No pressure. :)
September 2, 2010 9:20 pm
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We are (mostly secretly) 2+ months pregnant right now. So here’s a bit of a different perspective. I went back and forth: want kids/don’t want kids/someday/now. And then I realized I don’t want OTHER people’s kids. But I want OUR kids. Kids that are part me and part my husband. And I think we’ll do a pretty good job creating humans that lead positive lives. I hope! We are a family, the 2 of us- a great team. And I love our family so much, that I’m ready to share it with someone else. Someone that is a little bit of each of us. Someone who we’ll raise as a team, another thing we do together.
I’m not saying everyone will feel that – and I definitely understand not wanting kids- I understand and respect that decision. I just wanted to point out that to me there was a difference- kids as a general idea (generally a sticky, ill-behaved, exhausting idea), and kids that are OURS (a much more appealing idea, although I know they will be sticky and ill behaved and exhausting as well!)
September 1, 2010 6:31 pm
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We are (mostly secretly) 2+ months pregnant right now. So here’s a bit of a different perspective. I went back and forth: want kids/don’t want kids/someday/now. And then I realized I don’t want OTHER people’s kids. But I want OUR kids. Kids that are part me and part my husband. And I think we’ll do a pretty good job creating humans that lead positive lives. I hope! We are a family, the 2 of us- a great team. And I love our family so much, that I’m ready to share it with someone else. Someone that is a little bit of each of us. Someone who we’ll raise as a team, another thing we do together.
I’m not saying everyone will feel that – and I definitely understand not wanting kids- I understand and respect that decision. I just wanted to point out that to me there was a difference- kids as a general idea (generally a sticky, ill-behaved, exhausting idea), and kids that are OURS (a much more appealing idea, although I know they will sometimes be sticky and ill behaved and exhausting as well!)
September 1, 2010 6:32 pm
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Congratulations!!
September 2, 2010 7:45 am
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TOTALLY.
if i can have a little one with my husband’s bright blue eyes and sense of humor and my freckles and dimples and mischief, i’ll be crazy in love.
kids in general? meh.
congrats!!
September 2, 2010 9:00 am
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TOTALLY. I want kids with my partner (one day). I truly love most of the kids I know, but towards “kids in general” I’m pretty ambivalent. I’ve never understood how some women (mostly, I’ve never met a man that’s said this but I’m sure they exist) can claim to “loooooove all children.” Really? Because children are PEOPLE, not puppies, and I’m pretty sure you don’t love all people (I definitely love all puppies, though).
I’ve had girlfriends express surprise when I say that I want kids because of this. They think that me not falling to pieces over every single child in existence means that I don’t want my own, which just strikes me as hilarious.
September 2, 2010 7:00 pm
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I love 90% of babies and wee ones. Could care less about puppies though.
September 2, 2010 8:08 pm
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now That I can’t relate to. ;)
September 3, 2010 10:43 am
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yeah. up until a few years ago I was definitely anti-other peoples kids but looking forward to having my own. now I’m for some reason seriously warming up to other peoples kids. I really like kids now! odd. but I definitely get the difference between “kids” and “OUR kids.”
September 3, 2010 10:44 am
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Now, I haven’t had the opportunity yet to read through the comments, so I apologize if I’m beating a dead horse. However, I think the underlying question of the Well Meaning but Infuriating Family Member/Friend/Stranger is “When are you going to follow the same path I did and thereby validate my choices and my existence?” It’s been my experience that those family members, friends, and strangers are themselves the women who married young and almost immediately chose to forgo a career in order to pop out a few kids. I think it speaks to a level of insecurity in her own decisions (I won’t say regret, but perhaps a “what if” mentality). Maybe that’s some kind of newly-married smugness and honeymooner haze talking, but that’s generally what I’m hearing in the question.
On another note, Marina’s comment was SO RIGHT. I feel the same way about my friends who will lead very different lives than me and I love that they will be my kids’ “Auntie Brigade.” Kids learn the most through example, so I’m so grateful for the examples my friends create for them.
September 1, 2010 6:55 pm
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I’ll admit it: I’m somewhat fearful of the ‘alone in old age’ aspect of not having kids. Not that having kids is any guarantee against it, or that NOT having kids necessarily connotes that I will be, but it’s something that I think about on occasion. Ultimately, I think this line of thinking is less about having kids and more about my fear that my husband is going to die long before me. He’s five years older to begin with, and historically, men in his family tend to die in their early 60s while women in my family tend to live until their mid-90s.
Obviously, shit happens and either of us could go anytime, but the bottom line is that it REALLY FREAKS ME OUT.
Then again, my grandmother is 73, has been widowed for nearly 20 years, has 3 kids, 5 grandchildren and 5 great-grandchildren, and she’s the loneliest person I know.
September 1, 2010 9:20 pm
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Just as I choose to make my friends my family now, I am hoping that model will still work when I’m old. I’ve seen a good example of it recently. Joy, my 81-year-old relative, visits her friend Caroline in the nursing home every week. Caroline is a widow and never had children. Joy does more for Caroline than some adult children of nursing-home-bound elderly. I’m holding on to that image of friendship for my old age!
September 2, 2010 4:03 am
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I think it’s important to remember, whether you have kids or not, that it’s still up to you to figure out how to fill your life. Whether your husband is still alive or you have kids or grandkids, it’s within your power to live your life in a way that makes you feel good. The happiest people I know in the 60+ category are people who pursue passions and continue to make friends and have a willingness to try new things and engage with the world. And that’s true whether they are married or single or parents or not parents or widowed. It’s even true for people who have major health issues.
September 2, 2010 8:45 am
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we’re always investing in people. whether kids, or someone else. you may not have young whipper-snappers to visit you and mow your lawn, but there will be a wealth of other folks in whom you’ve invested. i’m sure of it.
September 2, 2010 9:03 am
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This is such a wonderfully amazing post!
I have been married for less than three weeks to the perfect guy (for me : ). I’m 33, he just turned 40. He has two children, two boys, from a previous marriage. This is my first (and hopefully last) marriage and I never had and still have no intention of having children. The fact that he doesn’t want any more and I don’t want any children at all is one of the many reasons why we are so perfect for each other.
The issue of us having kids has been brought up by various family members from both sides during the four years that we’ve been together. Naturally, I get the “you still have time to change your mind” response to my “I don’t want any kids” announcement. But what does the trick is when I tell them that my husband made the choice to not bring any more children into this world while he was still married to his ex-wife and decided to have a vasectomy. I really wish I didn’t have to divulge such personal information but that seems to be the only way to change the subject. Of course this is not enough for my mother who constantly reminds me that I’m not “normal” and that I will “regret it” and that maybe he really isn’t the “right” guy for me. It has been so frustrating to have to deal with these issues, I am so glad that there are other strong, intelligent women who don’t feel any less so just because they choose to not have children.
And I admit, I have had that selfish thought that if we, by some miracle, had a baby, my husband would have to focus more of his attention on our baby instead of just his kids. I know it’s horrible of me, but I do sometimes resent the fact that I’m not the most important person in his life the way he is in mine, that I have to share the spotlight with his kids. I’m being brutally honest. It’s not that I don’t like his kids but I do view them a bit like the way I viewed my younger brothers when they were that age. They can be annoying, and whinny, and demanding, and just…kids. These feelings are more evidence why I probably should not have children. And speaking of a spouse’s children, I found it interesting that some people thought of my husband and I and his children as a new family unit. I don’t really see it that way. They’re not my kids and I don’t really have a say in their lives; they have a full-time mother who does. I don’t really view myself as their step-mother either, I would prefer to be their friend. This is a subject for a whole different post on a whole different blog I haven’t yet found but here it is…
September 1, 2010 10:11 pm
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I don’t know what it’s like to be a step-mother, but I do know what it’s like to be a step-kid. And I know it’s totally crazy to think that you guys are this family unit, but you might just be surprised. I was totally annoyed that I had to share my dad with some woman he married. Man, that SUCKED. And it didn’t matter that she was a nice person.
But it’s funny the way things go… no she was never my full time mom – I had a full time mom – but over time we did become a family unit – my dad, my step-mom, me and my brother. That’s one of my family units. My other was with my mom, brother, and former step-dad. And now I’m getting married, that will be my main family unit. So, no… you’re not the “mom,” but “step-mom” can be a pretty great thing; it just takes time to figure out where everyone fits together.
I’m sure my step-mom was totally annoyed by us when they first got married, but we were equally annoyed by her. But time – hopefully, usually – brings people together.
Blending families is definitely a topic I would love to see covered here.
September 2, 2010 7:13 am
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Thank you! I appreciate your response. His kids are still too young to express their feelings on the matter and I have no experience with blending families (my parents have been together for over 35 years) so your perspective on this is very insightful.
September 2, 2010 1:21 pm
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But if your husband put his children more on the back burner, would you really feel better? Personally, I could not marry a man with children who wasn’t devoted to them. If I began to think he wasn’t much of a father, it would affect how I felt about him.
September 2, 2010 10:20 am
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You’re right – if my husband didn’t love and take care of his children, I don’t think I could be with him. I respect his devotion to his children but that spoiled, selfish part of me resents the fact that I have to share him. It’s a hard thing for me to get used to but I made the choice to marry a father and have to learn to deal with it.
I would like to know how other women in my situation have dealt with these issues. A “blending families” post would be most helpful.
September 2, 2010 1:07 pm
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One beautiful solution would be to share the lives of the children with him. Do activities together. It would cement the bond all the way around. :)
September 2, 2010 8:23 pm
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offbeatmama.com has a couple great posts about blending families.
September 4, 2010 11:46 pm
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You might consider reading “Stepmonster” by Wednesday Martin. My fiance has a child from a prior marriage; this is my first marriage (I don’t have kids), and I found the book very supportive.
I find it soooo difficult to admit negative feelings about my step-parenting experience—and particularly about my stepson. It makes me feel guilty and ill-equipped, and frankly, un-maternal. It’s a huge adjustment for all of us, from enforcing new boundaries for the ex-wife to establishing authority within our household to figuring out my role in all this. I totally hear you about thinking, ‘well, I chose this, so it’s on me to deal with it’, but the fact is we’re human and it’s sometimes hard. I have to remind myself I’m not disrespecting my partner or his child by admitting my frustrations. I have to remember my needs and emotions matter significantly in making this work. My fiancé is a terrific in his role as dad, but being in the role of my husband is crucial too. He works every bit as hard at being a good partner to me as he does at being a good dad—and that makes all the difference.
So back to the original post topic…we haven’t decided whether to try for kids of our own. But I have a couple thoughts about being asked about it: 1) I worry that if I express my ambivalence about reproducing it will be perceived as an inability (or unwillingness) to love children, and by extension, my stepson; and 2) I’m bothered by the implied (from some people) idea that bearing my own children will earn me equal footing with the other “real” parents in our situation. Because the thing is, while my stepson will always have 2 parents (of which I am not one), our household has 2 adults (of which I AM one), and that can be a tricky grey area.
Does any of this ring familiar with you? I’m downright starving for new-stepmom input as well!
September 7, 2010 5:19 pm
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I’ve got my own long-ass comment to make later down the line here, but I just want to say – as a stepmom myself, if you find that blog, please share!
Also from my own experience – the first year was the hardest. After about three years we had forged a decent family unit. Hang in there. You’ll feel all sorts of things that make you feel like a horrible human and a worse parent. Just ride them out; you’re normal, not evil, and they’ll pass someday.
September 9, 2010 10:42 am
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We can learn/apply something from all the Prop 8 business here — one of the main arguments the conservative pro-Prop 8 side has put forth is that the purpose of marriage is procreation. As a society who allows elderly and infertile people to marry despite their obvious inability to have children, we know somewhere deep down that while marriage and children often go together, they are not, in fact, the same thing. So let’s stop treating them like they are!
The passage quoted above reminds me of a chapter in a book I read an anthropology class in college. It was about Altruism which basically made the case for the “gay uncle” in the family. There is a biological advantage to having a childless relative in that such a person (or animal) looks out for members of his/her family, because he shares genes with them. If something happens to mom or dad, Uncle ‘Mo is around to look out for the little tykes, thus ensuring that the family genes stay in the population. This book was making the case for why homosexuality exists – but I see no reason why that gene sequence couldn’t end up in people who lack the gay gene.
And the truth is, we need these “villagers” to help raise our children now more than ever. With the majority of women having careers other than homemaking and few people living in close proximity to their families, we don’t have the same amount of support to take care of the many needs children (and their parents) have. Aunties (and Uncles) are desperately NEEDED to take the place of these things we’ve eliminated for everyone’s health and sanity!
I also want to point out the double-standard: how many men get pestered about when they’re going to hurry up and start having the babies already? And isn’t most of this constant pressure coming from other *women*? Uh huh. Exactly why this post belongs on APW, very similar to the pressure women put on women to have perfect [bodies for their perfect] weddings.
September 1, 2010 10:16 pm
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Yay for science! I know it’s only a theory, but I’ve always been fond of the Gay Uncle theory, if only because it forces us to recognize that human interaction has always been more complicated than the nuclear family, and it’s irresponsible for us to assert that heterosexual marriage with children is the way it’s “supposed” to be.
But I do want to add that many men actually do get pressure and questions about getting married and “starting a family.” Men are less likely to pressure one another on the subject than women are (though even that does happen), but men definitely feel the societal pressure to conform with social expectations. I was worried my boyfriend’s very Catholic and traditional mom would freak out when we decided to move in together, but instead she was relieved. It meant he was taking steps in the direction of marriage. He definitely gets more pressure on these subjects from his family than I do from mine.
If there is a difference, I think it’s that women start getting pressure about marriage and children when we are very young. We are forced to start thinking about what it means to be a wife and a mother from childhood. We play with dolls and are encouraged to babysit and people generally expect us to focus more on family and nurturing. Men don’t get this pressure. So it can sometimes hit them hard when they reach a point in their lives when people suddenly expect them to get married and have kids. Women feel anxious and frustrated at having motherhood forced on us our whole lives, and men feel terrified and unprepared for having fatherhood suddenly crop up as an expectation. [Generalizing, obviously -- this is far from everyone's experience]
This is something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, as my boyfriend and I negotiate the parenthood issue. Sometimes I have to remind myself that when I was 18 or 19, learning that I’m really not a kid person and that I bristle under expectations that I act maternal and nurturing, my boyfriend probably hadn’t though much about the subject at all. I can’t assume he’s going to be looking at the issue in the same way, so I’m having to get better at explaining my feelings and where they come from and relate them in a way he understands. Even for someone as verbal as I am, it’s really difficult.
September 2, 2010 8:05 am
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Oh, gosh. There is so much to say on this topic.
I may be physically able to have children, but it poses some significant health risks to me. As a result, I have wanted to have my tubes tied, move to a developing country, adopt a child, and be a single working mom since high school. However, women have always told me that I was too young to make that kind of decision and that things would change when I fell in love.
I fell in love. My fiance is a traditional man and wants us to have children of our own. I wouldn’t mind being pregnant once, but I still am very leery of putting my future health at risk. As of right now, I do not plan on having bio-kids. My fiance, though, is afraid that he won’t be able to love an adopted child as much as a bio-kid.
I also feel very strongly that there are too many children in the world in need of loving homes (and public adoptions are free in Canada! Yet another plus). I also want to have a career and make a difference in the world. I think my fiance would be a better stay-at-home parent than I, but he feels that it’s his job to bring home the bacon.
He and I have a lot of stuff still to talk about, and we won’t have time to discuss it until after the wedding. I hope we won’t regret waiting to discuss something this important in more depth…
September 1, 2010 10:22 pm
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Talk about it now. Or at least sooner rather than later. Please?
September 2, 2010 8:31 am
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Yes, please talk about that stuff now. These are non-trivial issues.
September 2, 2010 9:43 am
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This is just like my sister and her fiance. Except they talked about it.
Well, it’s not that he wasn’t sure he couldn’t love adopted kids, that’s a difference. But he felt he NEEDED a biokid. So they talked and decided to pursue a surrogate, sometime in the future, so she won’t have to go through pregnancy, for health reasons. In addition they plan on adopting from fostercare.
When they decided this, he told her, ‘This is the last thing I felt like we needed to discuss before…’
He proposed two months later.
I’m not saying you guys will do what they decided, or that you should. But you really need to discuss this kind of issues before marriage. I hope it works out and that your wedding and marriage are wonderful.
September 2, 2010 9:40 pm
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I did my best to avoid this post all day yesterday, but after Meg’s tweets and emails from friends about it, I had to read. So I was really pumped about baby. Like, really pumped. But then I went on my honeymoon and was able to relax and enjoy my husband and the thought hit me- this time with him is a good enough reason to wait. Well, now I must say that reading some of the comments and thinking about what having a baby means for myself makes the idea of not having children more possible- especially reading about the ways women give back in other nurturing ways. I cry at the thought of this because I terminated a pregnancy and sometimes I feel like I owe it to the baby I lost and to my faith (in God, karma, etc.) to have children. In a sick way, I feel like having a child will allow me to forgive myself.
September 2, 2010 5:00 am
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As a researcher who studies plans for parenthood (or childfreedom), I’d like to mention that there is social science research that addresses a lot of the assumptions mentioned in the comments.
For example, there was an article in the well-respected journal Demography called “The Evolution of Fertility Expectations Over the Life Course” that looked for patterns in changes in expectations of parenthood in a national sample of women. Roughly 67% of women in the sample expected early in adulthood to have about 2 kids and mostly met that expectation. About 12% expected more than 2 kids, and ended up having even more kids than they expected over time. About 16% expected to have about 2 kids and then ended up having 0.5 on average; you can think of them as the involuntarily childless or fewer children than than they expected group. Finally, about 4% of women expected fewer children than average in early adulthood, and ended up expecting no children by their early 30s. Many of these women probably fall into the voluntarily childfree category. So, not a lot of support for large proportions of the female population changing their minds about not wanting kids, although I’m sure it happens in many individual cases.
There is also research supporting the ideas that voluntarily childless adults do face social stigma, lesbian and gay people face very different pressures when it comes to parenthood or no parenthood, and there are differences in plans for parenthood that are consistent by age, education, race/ethnicity, religiosity, political identification, and sexual orientation. For example, older, more educated, Euro-American, less religious, more liberal, and gay or lesbian people are less likely to report wanting to have kids. Shocker, right?
September 2, 2010 5:54 am
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Darn. Why is one of the best comments at the bottom of the page? ;)
September 2, 2010 7:01 am
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you really have some points there, but i still think wife and mother can go hand in hand…
September 2, 2010 8:28 am
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can.
but don’t have to.
September 2, 2010 9:04 am
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Okay, so I’ll admit to not reading 100% of this thread, I got about half way through and realised no one, it seems, feels the same way I do. Now I’m wondering if I’m some kind of freak.=/
I don’t want children. I have NEVER wanted children. Since I was about 13yrs old I have declared loudly and often that I will never have children to all my family and anyone else who would listen, really. I didn’t like children even when I was a child, for the most part anyway – this may be due in part to be an only child and spending most of my time with adults. I still don’t like children, in general. I don’t hate them as my future in laws seem to think, but I just don’t like them on the whole. They are loud, have way too much energy for me to handle, and they screech! OMG, it hurts my ears! But this isn’t to say I dislike all children! Or that I’m bad with them.
Why does everyone assume just because I don’t want children, and generally don’t like them that I’m going to be some kind of monster to them!?
I’m going to be married in about a month, my man has two nephews that both live in other provinces (I’m Canadian). I’ve only really got to spend time with one of them, and you know what? He’s freaking adorable! He’s good-natured, fun-loving, and sweet as can be. We get along great! I’d be terrified to baby-sit — it’s never gone well for me in the past, and I don’t know what to do with a kid! I’m terrified I’d screw up! But going to the zoo with him and his mom? Or spending the day at the park with them? I’m all for it.
I just.. I don’t want kids. I don’t want to be part of the Auntie Brigade. I don’t want to devote myself to children in some way. Kids are just not my thing. Why is it, that childless or not the only way I can be seen to be making my life meaningful is by helping children?
I want to make it clear, I don’t think ill of women who want/have children. If your children make you happy, I think that’s *Wonderful*! If they enrich your lives, great! But I don’t see why I should be valued less as a person, and looked at with disgust and confusion when I say I have no intention of having children of my own.
September 2, 2010 10:05 am
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i didn’t get that vibe at all.
MANY of the comments are about investing in people of all types- not just children/babies/teens.
September 2, 2010 11:59 am
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I was SUPER SUPER clear in the post that you don’t have to have anything to do with kids, or be involved with kids to still be a vital and childfree member of society:
“This is not to say that you need to make up for not having kids by being Mother Teresa. Not at ALL. You don’t have to make up for not having kids, period. But it is true that we all have limited resources in this world. We have limited time, money, and energy. When we have children, a lot of those resources get focused (rightfully) in one area – on a few lives. When we don’t have children (permanently or temporarily) we can use those resources on other projects. We can spread our focus.”
September 2, 2010 1:28 pm
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Melissa, you’re not some sort of freak. Just one of the four-percenters (an above comment — the approx. percentage of women with no children by choice). And maybe a smaller percentage of the “four-percenters” because some of those are probably more of the “auntie brigade” variety. Anyway, it takes all kinds. I do fine as an aunt, but if I had to spend more than a few hours with those children or entertain them independently, I’d be done for. I completely hear where you’re coming from. You may be in the extreme minority, but you’re not alone… even though we may feel like complete outcasts the majority of the time. Like a lot of the sentiment above — each person has a pretty darn good idea of what’s right for them, and that’s what you need to do!
September 4, 2010 12:21 am
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I’m kind of late in the game here, but I REALLY appreciate this post. I’m getting married in October and feel really good about our decision NOT to have children for quite a while. We already have a family of four (us and two dogs) and that’s perfect for now. Some of my friends are mothers, and when I’m around them and their babies (which is a lot) I never feel left out or incomplete. I actually feel better about my decision.
It may help that my parents were married for 6 years before children and my cool cousins wait more than ten years (they were 20 and 21 when they got married-makes sense) so she could follow her career and it paid off.
Thanks for writing this though, makes me happy that I am not alone!
September 2, 2010 11:12 am
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There are so many wonderful comments already that I feel I have little to add, except that I wanted to personally say “thank you” and send you big virtual high fives. I needed this post and I needed all the women who are commenting on it to know that You’re Out There.
Thank you thank you thank you.
September 2, 2010 1:40 pm
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If I spent the time “Exactly!”-ing all the comments from this, I’d be late for my wedding in two years. So thankful to see this topic come up!
That said, after telling my family and my fiancee’s family that we’re getting married, the greatest amount of relief I felt was when Eric’s mom told me that she would never bother me about not having kids. I hadn’t even thought about how grateful I would feel hearing that, because to me, having children was always a decision concerning me and Eric. But just like weddings/marriage, our lives are entwined with those of our families, and it’s nice to know that at least one person will be able to support me on this one.
And on the selfish thing, what could be more selfish than having children due to spousal/peer/family pressure? I know I was always curious about why my parents chose to have kids, and to have to answer that question honestly or with an awkward, “Well, your father’s family really wanted grandkids…” would be horrific, to the kid, and to me.
That said, I can’t wait to spoil my friends’ future kids rotten! Throwing kid birthday parties I can totally do, and I can’t wait to be an auntie =]
September 2, 2010 3:53 pm
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We could keep in mind, too, that when most people seem nosy about your life, or when they seem shocked that you don’t want kids, it’s because having kids was one of the most joyful things they ever did. Just saying, it’s not all anti-choice lockstep breederism.
September 2, 2010 4:58 pm
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I think this is very true… but at the same time, you don’t get the same kind of shocked/horrified/”you’ll seeeeee…” thing about, say, not traveling or having a fulfilling career or making art or any of the other things that are someone’s most joyful thing they ever did. I think a lot of people’s point is that having kids is treated differently than other joyful parts of life.
September 2, 2010 10:49 pm
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I think it’s been mentioned several times and people have commented on this and recognized that as most of the reason people ask. It’s certainly the reason I ask, when appropriate, because I think kids are giant balls of gross, messy awesome.
But most of what is being discussed isn’t people ask if you’re going to have kids, or even ask why when you say you’re not.
It’s when they continue the conversation, calling into question your entire decision.
Even when it’s the bestest thing that ever happened to them, that’s effing rude.
September 3, 2010 6:50 am
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Careful. Your comment seems a *lettle* close to an attack on the super respectful women on this thread. No one was complaining about “anti-choice lock-step breederism.” In fact, you’re the only person who has used the term breeder.
September 3, 2010 12:33 pm
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Personally, I commend couples who are honest with themselves when they say they’re not willing to become parents because they’re not willing to take on the responsibility. It certainly is better than a lot of people who do have children but never really recognize or take on the responsibility at all. I don’t think couples should feel forced into becoming parents because society deems it as the next step. I have a friend who after 6 years of marriage hasn’t had any children yet and feels she and her husband never will. I support her decision. It’s just her reasons that have me a bit uncomfortable.
First, she says that having children would be the knife in her marriage. That kids would spell doom and misery. That she feels sorry for couples with children because they look so unhappy with their little “rugrats.” As a woman who wants children, I know that children are not to blame for a failed marriage. They can neither save or kill a marriage. A marriage will always be between two people and the decisions they make to nurture the relationship between each other, regardless of how many children they have.
Second, my friend fears she will never be the perfect mother. That she’ll make mistakes and her kid will hate her forever. Who said parents never made mistakes? Who said you had to be perfect? Just like there are no perfect marriages, there are no parent-child relationships. It’s recognizing that you’re human and you and your child are growing together…I think that’s the beautiful part of parenthood, that you’re also learning and becoming an enriched person in leaps and bounds.
I feel uncomfortable with people who view children as “rugrats,” like little pets to raise without thoughts or minds of their own. Often times, people — even parents– don’t see the relationship aspect of having children. Sure, there are diapers and bottles, and the “annoying” part that even I cringe about, but that’s just a small portion of the parent-child relationship. My niece is three years old and I’m still amazed at what I learn from her each day.
Of course, I believe there are valid reasons why couples would choose not to have children. I just don’t think a woman needs to degrade another woman’s choices just to redeem or justify her own. Meg, you seem to have defended childless-couples-by-choice very well without going that route. Also, don’t put down children either. Have we become so cynical and jaded that we forget that we were once children ourselves?
September 3, 2010 10:40 am
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Not a single woman on this enormous thread has degraded other women’s choices, or children. And we have allll kinds of opinions here.
September 3, 2010 12:31 pm
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I think a most of us LOVE children, even though we don’t want to have them ourselves.
There will always be people like your friend who use unfortunate terms to describe children, as though they are not human. But I think they’re in the minority.
September 3, 2010 3:22 pm
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I think a part of me has always known I didn’t want kids. I babysat in high school and HAAAAATED it. Like, really really despised it. The one babysitting job I remember actually enjoying involved a 12 and a 10 year old. We watched movies, ate popcorn, and played video games. It was awesome. But when I babysat age 7 and under? I wanted to poke my eyes out. No, I don’t want to watch cartoons with you. No, I don’t want to play some stupid board game or recite the stupid rhymes I learned when I was a kid. NO NO NO! Oh, wow, I hated it so much.
It wasn’t until I was in college that I heard the term “childfree” – people who proclaimed (with varying levels of obnoxious) that they did not want children and would never have them. I felt such a peace and relief that such a class of people actually existed. You mean, it’s OKAY to not want children? Sign me up for membership!
When I was with my ex, I was pretty up front about not wanting kids, and I remember at some point in our relationship (we were living together, we were serious), him saying to someone, “Oh, I’ll at least have one!” My head shot up like a rocket. Oh … really? Later on, I remember conversations with him telling me that not only did he want me to have kids for him (which, maybe, I would be willing to do, under the right circumstances, maybe), but he also wanted me to be the primary caretaker, and give up my career to stay home with them, because “kids should be at home with their mothers.” (NOT the right circumstances.) His mother felt VERY strongly about “women who INSIST on working,” so I was really feeling like, if I did have children, that I would have no support from these people.
I remember telling him if he thought stay-at-home parenting was so important, then HE should stay home. “Well that makes no sense, because I make more money!” he replied. “Yes,” I said, “But you’re the one that has an issue with daycare, not me.” He changed the subject.
Obviously, there’s a reason he’s an ex (and that’s not the only one).
One of my coworkers recently found out she’s pregnant with her second child (and she’s ECSTATIC, so I’m happy for her), and she said something to me about stretching stomachs (I can’t remember the context), and then she stopped herself. “Wait … do you even want kids?”
“I have a dog. And a cat.” I smiled.
“That’s awesome,” she replied.
September 4, 2010 5:40 am
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What a great co-worker! I’m pencilling that question and response into my brain for future use :)
September 4, 2010 2:48 pm
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My fiance and I are still pretty unsure about having children, but are really open to the idea of adopting or being foster parents to at-risk teenagers. This has won us some pretty surprising reactions from people who ask us the “when?” question. A co-worker told me she couldn’t believe how “unbelievably selfish and immature” we were. His father cried tears of joy that we would “adopt grandchildren just for him.” My mother just shrugged and said, “Whatever.” Which is ironically how we feel about getting pregnant. So for now, it’s just us, two cats and a dog. No ambivalence about them. They can stay. :)
September 4, 2010 9:25 pm
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Adopting a child is unbelievably selfish and immature? Wow, you learn something new every day! ;)
September 4, 2010 10:39 pm
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Whoa. It’s not just that saying that makes you an ass-hat, but also that it makes you look like a moron. Adopting an at risk teenager is selfish. Yes. Of course. OBVIOUSLY. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?
People sometimes, I swear.
September 5, 2010 12:51 pm
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“Ass Hat” is one of my most favorite words in the world. It’s nicely sums up moronic behavior and ties it neatly in a bow. I love it so much I capitalize it. ;)
September 6, 2010 12:11 am
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Anybody have issues with the other way? Parents/friends telling them never to have kids (or a husband for that matter) – and rather to make yourself a career… when you know that you will want both for yourself some day? And how to politely say that without the assumptions that you will give up said career or that your life will then be a waste of all of “their effort?”
September 4, 2010 9:48 pm
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Oh yes. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, right? Someone’s going to hate your choices for whatever reasons.
I’m a big fan of not engaging, and changing the subject. :)
September 4, 2010 11:42 pm
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My FMIL’s stance on our future childbearing boils down to “not too many” and “not too soon.” When she heard that I throw around numbers like 8 (which is my go-to “big family” size as in, if nothing else gets in the way and we have no reason to stop, why NOT have 8 kids? We could have such a great fun big family!) she was horrified, and when she heard me say that we’d talked about starting to try to have kids a couple years after we get married (is that so weird?) she told us not to rush, kids are fine but “not too soon.” I guess I’m used to having people think I’m crazy for wanting a big family – I get that, because I may well be crazy, or at least naive – but I’m not used to being told that having kids in our late 20s, after 2-3 years of marriage and 5+ years together would be “too soon,” and I was at a loss for a response.
September 6, 2010 7:55 pm
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I seriously just pulled out my computer because I had to write this comment really quick -
We had our wedding this weekend and i was asked quite a few times about when we’d be popping the little ones out – and I felt so prepared and confident in my plans having read these posts about wife/mother. I am so grateful for this site.
September 5, 2010 4:02 pm
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AHHH! Congrats. Are you going to write about it???? Email me when you get back from blissed out land. But go, bliss out. (and thank you).
x
M
September 5, 2010 6:43 pm
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Never said anyone here degraded a woman’s choice to have children or said anything bad about children. Never said anyone here on this blog did. I was admiring the respect of opinions here. That’s why I enjoy reading this blog, because I enjoy seeing some levelheaded viewpoints of all angles. I’m in my early 30s and don’t plan having children anytime soon (although my husband and I hope to someday), and I too get annoyed about the constant questions on when I plan on reproducing and the whole “your biological clock is ticking” bit. But it is true, just as couples are sick of insensitive people bugging them of when they’re going to have children or viewing them as “selfish” because they don’t, there are some women who don’t want children and they defend their choices with insensitive comments about parenthood and children. Just because people who choose to not have children are in the minority, does not mean they’re all immune to resorting to insensitivity themselves. I’m not saying it’s the majority of women, neither am I accusing anyone here on this thread of doing so, but it is a common viewpoint. What I wanted to say was that I feel uncomfortable with the common view in society that having children likely spells out doom for the marriage. That once you have kids, the romance, the fire is gone. The life you dream about, the adventure is gone. Some have alluded to that fear in this thread. You see and hear it everywhere. When I was younger, when I thought of having kids, I thought of Al Bundy in Married with Children…not exactly a glamorous life to look forward to. I went to see Revolutionary Road with my sister, and afterwards my sister says, “See, that’s why I NEVER want to have children!” Even some couples who have kids always warn me that things will change for the worse when I have kids. Another friend who’s still on the fence about children says that parents urge you to have kids while at the same time warning you about the “boring” life you’ll have do so because “misery loves company.” It’s enough for me to want to hyperventilate at the thought of having children. When I was younger, I used to look down on women who didn’t have an ambitious career and didn’t travel the world and “have fun,” but instead chose to focus on their families. I thought their lives were never really complete because they were “just moms.” They were just mediocre or average because they did what society expected them to do. Now, I think I was really foolish and insensitive to have thought that about mothers.
As people here have thoughtfully pointed out, children should not be seen as some abstract “things.” That when we expand our families from just you and your partner, you’re embarking on a new relationship as a parent. Relating to, communicating with and raising a child is perhaps the most difficult project anyone can embark on in life. I, for one, am completely against the idea that once you are a parent, your life becomes completely devoted to your child in the sense that all of your career and personal goals go down the drain. But then I think of one of my former professors, who has traveled the world and achieved so much in her professional career. She says that the biggest most exciting adventure she’s had was raising her daughter. Even though she’s traveled to all corners of the globe, and has studied and written so many academic articles and texts, the biggest lesson she’s learned was as a parent. It’s funny because when she tells her female colleagues (many of whom never married or had children) that, they don’t believe her. To me, that’s unfortunate.
I understand and respect why people would not have children. I see the beauty of that decision as well, and you can still be a compassionate, nurturing human being who contributes greatly to society without being a parent. There are experiences you can have that you may never have if your time is being divided between a family and your ambitions. Meg, and many of the responses here on this blog have recognized and have defended this huge potential so well. At the same time, I think we (whether you plan on having children or not) should recognize the beauty of having children as well…ok, you might think society already does because it’s what they urge us to do all the time. But I don’t think many people do see the true beauty of having children, or they wouldn’t warn you about your life being so miserable and boring once you do so. The great thing about having children is not because it’s what society tells you have to do, but because you recognize the huge potential to learn so much about yourself, to become an enriched person as you grow along with your child from diapers to adulthood and your limitless capacity to love… Ok, I’ll get off of my longwinded message now. If I offend anyone here, I don’t mean to do so. We’re all women with a diverse opinions and experiences and we all rock!
September 6, 2010 12:21 pm
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Srsly, it’s why I’m a nanny. I don’t want marriage or kids…I don’t even date. I’m totally happily single and loving it. I have no desire to change this, no matter how many times I’m made out to be some sort of freak who is incapable of catching a man or woman. But especially when someone looks at me as if I just confessed that I thought Hitler was the best world leader ever because I don’t want kids…GAH! I will nanny all day long and be the best diaper changer, baby feeder, park goer, whatever out there. But I don’t want kids. There’s nothing wrong with that. (Especially since I’m totally a cat lady.)
September 6, 2010 7:55 pm
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Gosh I love you guys.
I’m getting married in two weeks. I’m 27, he’s 29, and neither of us want to have children. Ever. We’ve been together four + years, and have talked about major things like this from day one (I had made that mistake in earlier relationships, putting it off.) Earlier this year he had a vasectomy. (Yes— we are serious.)
Only AFTER the super easy, outpatient ‘procedure’ did we decide to inform our parents. Mine were totally cool with our grown up decision, as they have been with all our other grown up decisions. Plus they knew that I had never wanted children. His… were not so cool with it. They were “disappointed”, as if we were letting them down. (They have no other children living in the state in which to give them grandchildren.)
My boss at work told me that it makes him sad to think of me not having children. I’m 27, and my boss is 68, so I do think he inadvertently looks at me as a child sometimes, because I am the age of his children. I informed him that it makes me sad to think of having children. He said he hopes I change my mind. Ugh.
When people say these things, as I know they will at our wedding… I still have not come up with an appropriate response. My FH says we should tell them that we are unable, because technically NOW, we are unable. But I don’t want pity, or suggestions of adoption, etc. because we don’t want children, and saying we cannot seems like a lie.
Anyway, thank you all so much for wonderful posts like this, that allow me freedom to breathe easy, knowing we are not crazy, and the creativity of suggested responses to child-pushers. =)
September 7, 2010 9:24 am
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I have three kids, and always knew I would be a mother. I don’t love kids though. I love my *own* kids but even with them I have never been the play-on-the-floor, dress-up-barbies, excited-to-go-to-the-park kind of person. I’m good at managing them, taking care of their needs and creating structure, and of course, giving crazy amounts of love and understanding.
But, my children are not the only fulfilling part of my life. I love my job, I loved going to school for almost 7 years, I love being social and staying out late and not having to think about caring for someone else, and in fact I get overwhelmed and stressed out and wish I had more time to myself or for my husband and I to just hear our thoughts and have a little fun!
I think its good that people recognize the different lifestyles of having vs. not having. And choosing not to have kids takes a whole lot of self-awareness and honesty and self-reflection. I used to think it was selfish, but why? How could it be selfish? Cause I’m jealous at times? :) j/k. maybe.
I have learned much about love, life, and meaning-full ness through my children, I’m also looking forward to having three adults in my life when I am older, who I can watch grow into their own, have relationships, and maybe even children of there own (not pushing them into that of course, never!) My parents never pushed us in regards to marriage or children. Just education and I thank them for that. We grew up knowing that our self-worth isn’t based on who wants to commit to us or how many babies we have. Regardless, my two sisters and I are hopeless romantics and thrive on having a big family.
I have more and more friends who are dedicated to remaining child-free, while the other half have just starting having kids.
I think a better question to “when are you having kids” would be “do you want to have children?” Its a fair curiosity.
I get asked if we’re ever going to get a dog cause we have a big yard and the kids want one and ………uggggg. I don’t want a dog. I don’t want another creature underfoot who’s poop I have to clean up and hair I have to vacuum, and walk around and train to pee outside.
Its probably the same feeling people who don’t want kids have :)
September 8, 2010 9:19 am
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Beautiful post.
Shall I write a book or what?
I’m currently separated from my husband after almost nine years of marriage due to a whole slew of issues we built up over the years. We’re working things out but don’t know what to do with the elephant in the room:
I want kids of my own.
He doesn’t want any more kids.
He has five from his first marriage. Most of them live with their mom most of the time, 15 minutes away. She’s never accepted my presence and it was immediately established that I’m NOT THEIR MOM. So I can love them, care for them, pay for them, etc., etc., in any area she doesn’t control, but I’ve always felt like I have to jump back any time I might be encroaching on her territory.
I became a stepmom to five at 19 and it wasn’t pretty. I didn’t act like the evil stepmother, but I sure felt like her a lot. All the negative thoughts and feelings plus the fact that my husband is twelve years older than I am and was a much more experienced parent left me thinking for several years that I’d be an awful mother: I have no patience, I resent the expense of kids, I’d never get to do anything adult and fun, etc.
When my oldest stepson moved in with us at his mom’s insistence (too much for her to deal with), something shifted in me. All of a sudden he became *mine*. You need clothes? Let’s go buy them. How’s your homework? What do you need? How can I take care of you? And that generous attitude spread to his siblings, too. It was like it unlocked all of the things that I would do as a parent. His mom didn’t want him there; he was MY kid.
I want a good marriage and a family. I want kids of my own. For years I was so terrified at the thought of losing my husband over this that I convinced myself I was fine to just be a stepmom, and he got a vasectomy a few years ago. Last winter I finally got up the courage to look at what I want and right there in my face was the fact that I want to be a mom. I want to have a family. It’s not baby fever as much as it is a craving for permanent family members.
In thinking on how to write this out I realized that I went from being terrified at the thought of losing my husband to where I am now: Terrified at the thought of giving up having kids of my own. Something isn’t right with this picture.
I want to keep exploring this. I think I would be a really good mother and I think I would enjoy parenting and I think the world would benefit from having my kids in it (who, me, big ego?), but what happens when your partner feels just as strongly about NOT having more kids? How do you negotiate a situation that looks black and white? Failing that, how do you justify destroying one family to go try to maybe find and build another? Because my stepkids may not be my kids – if you ask their mom, they certainly aren’t; I don’t know what they would say themselves; I’m too afraid to ask – but they sure as hell are my family.
September 9, 2010 11:08 am
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This is an incredibly thoughtful post. APW is truely a cut above most wedding websites: less fluff, more real discussion. Glad I found this place!
In regards to children, I am 27 and newly married this year, and already have several family members (and lots of male coworkers…for whatever reason) asking when I’ll start poppin ‘em out. My problem is I am now getting worried that the genuine NEED or WANT to have them just isn’t there. I also figured when I approached 30 I would sort of naturally start wanting them. This is not happening. I’m worried because I know my husband would like 1 or 2, and would be an excellent dad.
As more of our friends have them the more annoyed I become with them. I’ve never liked kids that much. I babysat in high school for money, (and my little sister for free) and I tolerate my friend’s kids, but I’ve never sought them out otherwise. I was a waitress in college, which led me to dislike most parents and young children because of the havic they caused on a regular basis. I started thinking that maybe this is the kind of asshole you turn into when you have kids.
I saw the movie Idiocracy last year with my now husband (late to the party I know) and it gave me at least one good reason to have kids. In the beginning of the movie it outlines how the human population essentially devolved into stupid people who only knew how to act on the most basic of urges (sex, bathroom, violence) and who had the intellectual maturity of 10 year olds. Basically you meet 2 couples. Couple A is upper-middle class and married. The husband and wife are both college educated professionals who are waiting and planning for children when they think the time is right with their careers and whatnot. In their late 30′s the husband is killed in some kind of accident and the wife thinks maybe she’ll have a child with his frozen sperm.
Couple B is (I’m not trying to insult anyone here) portrayed as low-income, (maybe) high school educated, white trash. This couple makes tons of babies regardless of whether they can provide for them, birth control is non-existant. This couple’s children then go on to act the same way as their parents, banging their way through life and having kids left and right. Soon couple B’s family tree grows to an enormous size, while couple A’s tree ended with the (widowed) wife. This explains how the world came to be populated (and run) by idiots, because the smart people didn’t have tons of kids, and the ‘stupid’ people did so they become the majority. This is not to say that I think only stupid people have lots of kids, if you see the movie you will understand!
Yadda, yadda, my point is that now my main reason to wanting to have kids (sometime in the future) is to raise 1 or 2 smart people. My husband and I are on the same page in the thinking that, for whatever reason, people really are getting dumber. I mean, I see and hear some really stupid sh*t every single day, and I wonder how these people manage to survive, and inevitably most of them are carting around little thems who will probably carry on that polished turd of a legacy. So there you go, my one good reason to procreate is selfish, cold-hearted, and downright bitchy, sort of the same things women who choose NOT to procreate are called. Funny huh? No go watch Idiocracy and tell me I’m wrong.
September 15, 2010 10:49 am
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so. i am finding this blog and this post WAY late but thank god for it! i have known since i started dating that i did not want children (i am 29 and engaged now). my last bf did not want kids either so it was pretty ideal. however, my fiance is not sure??? so its been challenging to say the least when we discuss it. i dont want to force him not to miss out on something. yet i dont want to be forced either! we love each other so we are trying to not let it be an issue. i wont say never but i am 99.9% sure that i will be completely fine with just being an aunt. i love my twin 5 month old nieces more than anything in this planet (they have several auntie shirts) and they fill my world/heart/soul. we have been engaged for almost a year and about once a month someone asks us how many children were having/when were having them/what will happen when were parents/etc. its so unnervy. i get creeped out. i sweat. i stammer. because his family is all about babies! there is 2 other grandchildren. (side note-when we decided no kids @ wedding, that was pretty scary!), so i cant bring myself to tell his family! its freaking dumb but i saw the instant judgement when we said adults only reception. i hate that! i wanna stand up for myself. i just always use the phrase….. oh, my nieces are my babies…. thank you again for this post and for everyones comments. they make me feel less alone! i read the part in “eat pray love” where elizabeth is on the bathroom floor wanting a divorce and no kids and i wept! she gets u! i need to read “committed” next i see! xoxoxoxo
September 16, 2010 10:24 am
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[...] And yes, I knew that there were lots of qualifying factors. Doctors often engage in quite idiotic machismo with one another when talking shop and comparing how terribly hard we are, and while I have no doubt that she is an absolutely excellent doctor in the purely clinical sense, she’s never won any prizes for being the most empathic human being. (Sometimes, that’s exactly who you need in a difficult situation.) And it probably doesn’t help that she’s never been a woman who’s seemed remotely interested in fripperies like relationships, marriage, or – god forbid – children. Which is great, since she makes an excellent auntie. [...]
September 23, 2010 3:57 pm
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Yeeeeeeeeessss!!!! I have been thinking about all of these issues so much lately, and I can’t even really express how much this post and all the comments mean to me… Deciding not to have kids has been an ongoing and very thoughtful decision for me, and yet I have never once wavered from the decision to not have them. As I’ve moved through various phases of adulthood, my feelings on the matter have changed and evolved, and several times each year I find myself revisiting my decision, asking myself if it still feels true and right for me. Since I’ve been with my partner/fiance, my feelings about not having kids have changed considerably. I can envision having kids with him, and I think it would be a beautiful experience. And yet, I still don’t want it… People tell me sometimes that I will change my mind, but at age 34 that argument is really starting to wear thin on me. Really? I’m going to change my mind after almost 15 years of thinking deeply about this, and still coming to the same decision? Changing our minds is always possible, and I don’t rule it out, but I have THOUGHT about this decision, and I don’t think there’s going to be any changing of mind…
Lately all of my thoughts about this have been bent towards the notion that Mother is the most valued role a woman can play within our society/culture. This is true even in progressive circles of our society. It makes me sad to know that I will always be less valuable to my larger society because of my decision to not be a mother. Of course, I will be valuable to the many individuals in my life who actually do respect my decision to not have children, but in the larger society I will be at worst disrespected and frowned upon, and at best simply overlooked.
I love my 2 person 2 cat family… It feels so damn right. Thank you so much for this post, and thanks too for all the comments. Because of all of you, I am starting off my day today with a very full heart, and a new appreciation for my own decision.
October 8, 2010 9:50 am
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It is better to regret not having children than to regret having them. It is that simple for me.
August 14, 2011 9:18 am
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I don’t ever remember wanting kids..even as a little kid..The picture of my “life” never involved kids….And I’m talking from age 6 onward.
I tell people it’s like this..I was on the assembly line being made, and, when it came to the section where they put the “want/ like babies” chip in, the assembeler had to sneeze, and turned away for a moment, and, when turned back, I had slipped on down the line and the assmebler shrugged and said, “oops..oh well….missed that one”….
I get all wrapped up in caring for my critters and hubby…he’s my 2nd one, the first one bailed after 12 years together and 7 years married…I told him when we were dating i didn’t want kids, and he said OK…
After several years of marriage, he started making snide remarks, and I reminded him of what I’d said…HE said “I thought you’d change your mind…My sister said she didn’t want kids, and look, now she has three and loves them”…
I told him that I had said I didn’t WANT any kids, not that I wasn’t SURE I didn’t want any…there’s a huge difference…
The guy I’m maaried to now, for some years…he came from a large family, was the oldest, had enough of diaper-duty growing up…and, if he “needs” kid contact, there are several nephews and one niece he can call..All of them are in their teens now…
August 14, 2011 11:04 am
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Forgot to put in that getting wrapped up in caring for critters and hubby…I’d be a walking basket case if I’d had kids, what with the way I worry over *them*….
August 14, 2011 11:08 am
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