Well. Here is a post that has been a long time coming—the discussion of open marriages. So often, discussion of non-monogamy goes off track, because all people can hear is, “Oh my god! This is not like how we do things! I don’t think I want to do things this way! This must be wrong!” But APW-ers are really good at listening to each other without screaming at each other, so I’m delighted for this post. It makes me think about the rules under which I live out my relationship, and the ways we communicate. Hearing about other ways of doing things makes us stronger. Even perspectives as seemingly diverse as waiting till marriage to have sex, and open marriage show me that we’re all more alike than we are different, and we all have wisdom to share with each other. And with that, I bring you Christina:
When my husband asked me to marry him in a vineyard a year and a half ago, I was overjoyed. We spent a beautiful day together in the Valley talking about our life and the wedding that was now in our immediate future. When the day was done and it came time to share the news, the first people we called were the lovely couple we had been dating for just shy of a year.
My husband and I have what I like to call a respectful-and-consensual-quasi-non-monogamist-marriage—but since that’s a ridiculous mouthful, we just call it an open marriage. Ever since I was in high school I knew that I was going to have an open marriage. I didn’t know anyone in an open relationship nor had I ever seen one before, but somehow I got it in my head that it was something I wanted before even really knowing what it was. Maybe it was because I had seen my parents dealing with infidelity, or maybe it’s just my genetic makeup. Who knows. I just knew the idea of lots of people loving each other appealed to me.
I read somewhere that there are about as many kinds of polyamory as there are polyamorists, and my husband and I just have one kind. Like any relationship, figuring out what you want your relationship to look like is no easy task. For us it took loads of communication, tons of honesty, and a willingness to explore and occasionally figure out some things you don’t want to do. Over our five years together, we’ve learned two basic things about how we want to engage in an open marriage:
1. Our marriage will always comes first. Feeling and showing love is *awesome*. We want each other to feel as much of that through life as possible, but never at the expense of our marriage. We’ve promised never to use other relationships to hide from problems we might be having together. If an outside relationship is causing too many problems in our marriage, it ends. If one of us needs to be monogamous for a little while, we do it.
2. We don’t date people separately from each other. People always ask if I ever get jealous- I did before we learned this. It’s the difference between splitting and sharing. Husband gone for a few days visiting a girl with whom I don’t have a relationship? That’s splitting, and I get jealous. Us both dating the same person (or people) with whom we occasionally have one-on-one time? That’s sharing, and it makes my heart feel all full and happy. We want to share our love, not divide it up. We want to ADD to our relationship.
Like anyone trying to do something outside the mainstream, I get a lot of unsolicited advice and tons of loaded questions. You ladies making non-WIC choices for your weddings probably know what I mean. Take for example this gem I get all the time:
“Your lifestyle is fine and all, but what’s the point of getting married if you aren’t faithful to each other?”
It’s a common misconception, but my husband and I *are* faithful to each other. We never cheat, meaning we never go beyond the pre-determined boundaries that we laid down together in our relationship. My husband still has the ability to cheat on me, just in a different way than you might think. Over the years we’ve come to refer to this faithfulness as “respecting the foundation,” and it’s pretty much become our relationship motto.
So why did we get married? For me, being non-monogamous doesn’t erase the desire for a life partner. I wanted someone to grow old with, have children with, and potentially love forever. It’ worth saying, too, that I can love more people than just my husband without loving my husband any less. For us, love is not a zero sum game. My girlfriend was the leader of my bridal brigade and was totally there for me on my wedding day. Does her presence there take away from my husband? Absolutely not. All of us there together, loving each other, makes the love even bigger.
I’ve heard people say that they could never have an open relationship because it would just take too much work. I’d love to say that isn’t true – but it ain’t no joke. This sh*t is hard. Take for example when we were dating a couple—there weren’t just two relationships going on. After mapping it out one night to sate our own curiosity, we realized there were really 15 relationships going on. Yeah. It can be challenging. But no marriage is easy, right? Sometimes it’s pull-your-hair-out-hard, but you work through it because you want it. Being able to love my husband, have him love me, watch him love others, and love others together– I feel so surrounded by love, sometimes I feel like the luckiest person on the planet. It makes all the work we put in feel utterly worth it.
Truth be told, there isn’t a relationship out there that wouldn’t benefit from the amount of work, communication and constant introspection that it takes to manage an open marriage. Husband and I are always assessing our needs and wants and talking to each other about it. We don’t have a lot of relationships to emulate or look up to, but that has served us well. We rarely compare our marriage to others, and we get to build our ideals and boundaries from scratch. How awesome is that?
Of course there’s all sorts of odds against us, and horror stories about how our marriage could end up. But what marriage doesn’t have that? Wedded bliss is supposedly a risky thing these days. Sure, I could opt out of marriage like a lot of people in my social circle. I could choose not to try. But I chose otherwise. It might be stupidity, but it feels more like bravery. Because even with all the statistics against us, we still want to work for something that makes us happy. Call me crazy, but isn’t that kinda the point of life? Yup. It is. And it doesn’t have to be anyone else’s definition of “happy”. Just ours.
Photos by Kali Kraum Photography.
I love that you said this: “We never cheat, meaning we never go beyond the pre-determined boundaries that we laid down together in our relationship.”
I think that’s such an important point, not just for open marriages, but for all relationships. It is entirely up to the people involved in the relationship to decide what is and isn’t acceptable for them, in all areas, and no matter how different from the ‘mainstream’ that decision may be, if it’s right for the people directly affected, it’s right. That’s all that matters.
Thank you for sharing your story, it’s very beautifully and eloquently written, and such an interesting look at a relationship style I’ve never experienced before.
March 23, 2011 4:39 am
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Thank you so much for posting this, Christina. It was beautifully and thoughtfully written.
March 23, 2011 10:44 am
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Agree. Even in a “standard” marriage, a couple can have cheating going on that’s not necessarily physical. It all depends on what the foundation is.
March 23, 2011 1:16 pm
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‘respecting the foundation’. love it.
thanks for such a thought-provoking post
March 23, 2011 4:39 am
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indeed. wow, was my first thought when I finished.
March 23, 2011 5:02 am
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Thanks for sharing your choices and philosophy. Total eye opener. The essay on open marriage from “The Bitch in the House” left me with a lot of questions– including how it was possibly making the author happy as she wandered around lonely in her husband’s dirty socks waiting for him to come home at night from his girlfriend’s house. Your incredibly articulate post really helps me see how this choice can not only work for some couples, but also allow them to thrive.
March 23, 2011 11:21 am
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Thank you again, Meg. And friends.
March 23, 2011 4:46 am
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Christina, thanks for sharing such an interesting post. It wouldnt work for me/us but it’s extremely interesting to read your thoughts on marriage and it’s really brave of you to share!
March 23, 2011 4:48 am
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Such a wonderful post! I subletted a room in a home of a couple that had an open-marriage. I have to admit before having that experience, I struggled understanding how love could survive in a situation like that. As Christina said “it ain’t no joke. This sh*t is hard” but “It makes all the work we put in feel utterly worth it.”
What I learned:
- they had extremely open, healthy communication between each other that I’ve seen in any relationship. Not just about their girlfriend, but the work they put into their communication about this aspect in their relationship clearly paid off in dividends when they had to have tough conversations about finances and work schedules
- they were two incredibly loving, generous and extroverted people. I’m not saying every couple in an open marriage has these traits, but it made their choice make sense for them. They had a ton of love to give and they thrived on being in the company of others. The husband once explained it to me as a technique that helps their marriage because both of their emotions ran so strong, having another outlet to share with prevented the two of them from over-whelming each other.
- they loved and respected each other in ways some of my friends in “traditional” relationships dream of.
Regardless of the type of marriage people have, Christina nailed it when she wrote that all relationships can benefit from dedicated introspection, communication and work. I think the conscious, careful way couples in successful open marriages “respect their foundation” can teach a lot of us good practices for any type of relationship.
Thank you for sharing! I love how this site makes me appreciate the strength we derive from challenges.
March 23, 2011 5:04 am
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This is amazing. thank you.
March 23, 2011 5:23 am
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“Respecting the foundation”? Genius!
Thanks for reminding us that relationships should be defined by what works for the people in them, and not someone elses’ ideals. You and your husband, which such clear and open lines of communication, are a step ahead of many couples who aren’t sharing that deeply.
March 23, 2011 5:28 am
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Brave, smart, and beautifully written. Thanks.
March 23, 2011 5:31 am
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So thought provoking and smart. Thank you to Christina for writing, thank you for Meg and Alyssa for posting. I’m one of the many “not getting married anytime soon” (I don’t think!) ladies who come here everyday anyway because of posts and coversations like these. “Respect the Foundation” is going to become my new motto. Thank you!
March 23, 2011 5:49 am
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“…one of the many “not getting married anytime soon” (I don’t think!) ladies who come here everyday anyway because of posts and coversations like these.”
Glad to hear I’m not the only one!
Also loving today’s post. It’s great that there can be a community like this one to share such different perspectives about what healthy relationships can look like for different people.
March 23, 2011 4:43 pm
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I think your post is amazing. I love that APW is so accepting of all lifestyles too. People should have the freedom to be themselves without judgment.
What you have to say about boundaries, communication and work in a relationship are all very important points that resonate with me; that, and they are 100% applicable to all relationships. Thanks for having the courage to share!
March 23, 2011 5:56 am
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This was hard for me to read, which means that it was good for me to read.
Thanks APW team for including things here that I wouldn’t seek out myself.
March 23, 2011 5:57 am
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You could easily use the motto “respect the foundation” in terms of wedding planning too…I know, with my ceremony and wedding, there’s certain things I want to accomplish, and other people have to “respect the foundation” that the FH and I are setting down for ourselves.
Very thought provoking post! Great writing. APW is a wonderful place.
March 23, 2011 5:57 am
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Thank you for sharing your story, and your relationship with.
This –
“Truth be told, there isn’t a relationship out there that wouldn’t benefit from the amount of work, communication and constant introspection that it takes to manage an open marriage. Husband and I are always assessing our needs and wants and talking to each other about it.”
I think some of the best talks my husband and I have had have come from discussions about our boundaries are and what we both want, need and expect from each other. (Thank you Dan Savage, for giving us the opening.)
and also this –
“We rarely compare our marriage to others, and we get to build our ideals and boundaries from scratch. How awesome is that?”
This. I think that this is a beautiful way to live, and probably something we all could benefit from. I know I can.
March 23, 2011 6:14 am
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I like to listen to Dan Savage’s podcast show sometimes. It makes me want to feel more open to other different relationships. Although I choose not to have an open marriage, myself, that doesn’t mean I can’t learn something new from others who choose to love this way.
I can say that I learned something good from this post, too.
Yay broadened horizons!
March 23, 2011 7:32 am
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This was an incredibly interesting post, and I loved reading it. While an open marriage would probably not work for my husband and I, we have talked about it once or twice in curiousity. Would it be cheating? It would feel like it… but the way you described how a healthy open relationship can work doesn’t make it feel that way. It definitely opened my eyes to the concept, and as the others have said it’s about “respecting the foundation” which works for any marriage.
Thank you for this post, Christina!
March 23, 2011 6:20 am
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“Truth be told, there isn’t a relationship out there that wouldn’t benefit from the amount of work, communication and constant introspection that it takes to manage an open marriage.”
This is exactly what I was thinking as I read the post – by having a monogamous marriage, my husband and I haven’t been forced to address – in a really head-on and direct way – some aspects of our relationship. Because our relationship seems to fit a more traditional model, we haven’t tackled issues of what cheating means to us and what we need from our relationship vs. what we need from other people.
Between this post, and the list of questions posted last week, we’ve got talking to do! Christina, thanks for sharing your perspective. Meg’s right – it is wisdom we can all learn from.
March 23, 2011 6:22 am
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Even if you don’t have an open marriage, this is still something you have to tackle. My fiancee and I have discussed the definition of cheating extensively after a few couples who were close to us ended up having problems from “cheating.” For some folks, cheating is flirting, and for others, you aren’t cheating until you have sex. We all have different lines, and it’s really important to know where those lines are. If you have needs that you think should be met by your marriage and aren’t, that’s something that must be discussed.
Oh, and I should add, it is essential to respect those lines. I should think that would go without saying, but I’ve known some people to have issues there. I had one time, in a work situation, where my open-marriage coworker didn’t understand why I, a single lady, wouldn’t get involved with him. Sure, he was cute. But just because he was okay with his open marriage didn’t mean I wanted to be involved in the situation. So respect is necessary from all angles.
March 23, 2011 12:16 pm
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I love this post. For real, this is why I read APW every stinking day (rarely commenting, but still).
I don’t have an open marriage, and am not sure that we would benefit from one, but I really appreciate what you’re talking about here. The topic seems to really be communication, and how, with enough of it, you can define your own boundaries and really create the exact relationship(s) that you need and want.
Also, can I give a shout out to Dan Savage? Love him.
March 23, 2011 6:25 am
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Also, I know an older couple who have had an open relationship for ages. It’s kind of an awesome thing to see, because they are a TEAM.
March 23, 2011 6:28 am
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Thanks so much for this truly interesting post. You got right to the heart of how to define “cheating:” for some couples a kiss is cheating, for others it’s not; for some couples feeling emotions for another person that you never act on is still cheating, for others it’s not; and you have your own definition of cheating that does not include certain types of contact and relationships. I think it benefits everyone to realize that we ALL actually have our own personal definitions of cheating, whether we’ve consciously recognized that or not. The important thing is to verbalize those definitions with our partners and then respect the boundaries we agree on. A great reminder and a great post.
March 23, 2011 6:29 am
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…… and this is why I read APW, smart, interesting women with all different kinds of relationships working on their own definitions of ‘happy’
Thank you so much for sharing
March 23, 2011 6:30 am
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To me, the larger theme that everyone can take away from this wonderful post is the public vs. private, us vs. them, what works for us vs. what is expected battles that every couple must face. Even the most “traditional” marriages deal with this issue and I think you’ve set a great example for all of us. Living your life your own way is one of the hardest and bravest things I think we can do.
March 23, 2011 6:38 am
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Thank you for this. My husband and I are in the process of figuring out what type of open marriage we want to have, what our boundaries are, and so forth. Until we both know what we want, we’re staying monogamous, but an open marriage is something we both think we would enjoy. It’s great to see someone else saying the things that I’ve been saying (that you can love your husband AND someone else, that it’s not cheating if it’s within the boundaries of your marriage, and that your marriage always comes first).
You might not have had a lot of models when building your marriage, but I think I might have one now.
March 23, 2011 6:40 am
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“[...] but I think I might have one now.”
For some reason, this strikes me as very sweet.
And this, of course, is why we all get together and talk about all of these things.
March 23, 2011 7:58 am
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Christina’s post is a fantastic example of how important honesty and communication are to a couple. No relationship works if one or both partners are hiding their feelings and not being open with the other person. Although I don’t think I’d ever be secure enough in myself to have an open relationship, I think Christina and her husband are totally on the right track. I’m a firm believer that almost any kind of relationship can work if both partners are mature and honest.
March 23, 2011 6:49 am
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I also want to throw out there that I think you can have a level of being honest in a very respectful way, with your partner about who you’re attracted to, without having an open marriage. And not totally repressing any part of your sexuality that doesn’t have to do with the other person can be really healthy.
That said, I’ve been in relationships where that REALLY didn’t work (but those relationships had a welter of other problems too.)
March 23, 2011 7:31 am
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Excellent point Meg. That kind of honesty is hugely important for almost any marriage, especially when it comes to sex. I’m all for people being as open and honest as possible about their sexuality in relationships, and that definitely includes monogamous marriages.
March 23, 2011 8:56 am
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I think you’re being hard on yourself by saying
“Although I don’t think I’d ever be secure enough in myself to have an open relationship”
because I don’t think it’s insecure to say that you need a monogamous relationship, I think it takes a lot of honesty and being secure with yourself to say that one thing or another just doesn’t suit you. Whether that means monogamy or polyamory or whatever.
I think any kind of relationship will work as long as both partners are on the same page. To some people pornography is cheating, to some it’s only cheating if it’s actually sex. Neither one of these definitions are wrong. Christina is right that it depends on the couples predetermined boundaries and honesty with each other.
March 23, 2011 9:35 am
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Meg– just wanted to say I appreciate this comment +this post a ton.
My husband and I, while clearly monogamous, are extremely up front with each other about what—and who—we find sexually attractive, whether or not we actually plan to go there. We’ve had some very amusing (not to mention very hot) nights scheming and dreaming about who we’d do together, and I’d much rather that we talked about it and joked about it than let those those feelings fester jealously. The honesty itself is a turn-on.
March 23, 2011 11:54 am
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Totally. I learned this the hard way. My now-fiance and I had an open relationship when we first got together, but more because I think it just seemed to make so much sense and be so honest (but we ARE attracted to other people!) than because it’s what either of us really, viscerally wanted.
We decided to take a break and close it after an uncomfortable incident that made it clear we needed more time to negotiate boundaries with each other. But then we decided to keep it monogamous because, well, for us it WAS too much work to maintain the open relationship*… and because it turned out we could be honest with each other about the parts of our sexuality that don’t necessarily involve the other…we are, and it’s great and totally trust building.
*Kudos to people who decide it’s worth it, though, and put the effort in, like lovely Christina here.
March 23, 2011 2:48 pm
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In fact, I do know one marriage like this that has lasted over 40 years. It takes a certain kind of people, living in an accepting community, but is not impossible. Good luck you two. Love and commitment – of any sort – matter more than almost anything else I’ve come across.
March 23, 2011 6:59 am
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Sorry in advance for making you blush, LPC, but I just wanted to say thanks for hanging out here and sharing your thoughts and experiences. Those of us with less life experience are very lucky to benefit from the thoughtful perspectives of those with more. I appreciate that you take the time to think critically about things, and even more so that you are then open to sharing your observations.
March 23, 2011 8:05 am
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Kahlia, thank you. It’s my pleasure.
March 23, 2011 9:29 am
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I think it comes down to knowing yourself. Some people can innately handle such a relationship better than others. And some could not handle it and don’t want to.
March 23, 2011 8:40 am
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Wow, what a great post. I’m so glad to have this perspective, since like you I don’t know anyone else (at least no one has revealed) who has a respectful-and-consensual-quasi-non-monogamist-marriage.
I think there’s so much we can all take from your post, but especially the idea of boundaries and cheating. Cheating is overstepping the boundaries which we set for ourselves, not the boundaries everyone else sets for us.
March 23, 2011 7:02 am
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This idea was one of the ones we discussed on the night I proposed. Being open about the possibility of one day being attracted to someone other than my husband made me feel more comfortable with the concept of marriage. My parents split up because of infidelity and I recognize that sometimes we want something more than the relationship gives. My fiance basically told me that he would be fine with an open relationship if we decide to try one, because when it comes down to it, he wants to be with me until the end. Knowing that he is willing to work on our relationship to the point of opening it up so that both of us are happier, because he doesn’t want to lose me made me realize that this was the person I wanted to have a marriage with.
We aren’t in an open relationship right now, and I don’t know if we ever will be, but this outlet makes me less afraid of divorce for reasons of infidelity. Of course, like you say, he or I could still cheat on the other, but the openness we established early on allows us to discuss the need for a change. We basically decided that if it came to that point we would discuss it, and any action taken without this discussion would be as you say, “not respecting the boundaries”.
March 23, 2011 7:11 am
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Major kudos to you two for having that conversation!
March 23, 2011 8:52 am
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Keep in mind that infidelity is a big subject.
Many people assume that people cheat because they want variety. But tons of people cheat because their emotional and/or physical needs are not being met in the marriage. It is often a desperate act.
I don’t think open marriage solves damaged relationships.
Perhaps that wasn’t what you meant, but I had to throw it out there.
March 23, 2011 9:12 am
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You are absolutely right — open marriage doesn’t solve damaged relationships. One of the things we (we being my triad of 10+ years) most often tell people when they ask us for advice (we are out, and therefore poster children) is that you shouldn’t start a new relationship when the old one is in trouble; it is far more likely that you’ll send both down in flames.
I’ve now been poly longer than I was monogamous, and can no longer imagine living any other way, but it is definitely *harder* than monogamy; I’m just also happier. I’m a major introvert, and I suck at being someone’s one and only, especially if they like to be social (which most of my partners, historically, have been.) So my partners go to scary movies together so I can stay home, play with the kids, and do my art.
March 23, 2011 10:44 am
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This: “you shouldn’t start a new relationship when the old one is in trouble; it is far more likely that you’ll send both down in flames.”
I have to admit this post was hard for me because I have watched 3 different open marriages fail – all for that reason. When things got hard in the marriage, one or both partners found comfort with someone else. The “new love” was (of course) so much more exciting, and lines like “I never really loved you” started coming out.
BUT – this post was great in that it gave me hope for couples who really find joy in marriages that are “open” not just in interpersonal boundaries, but also in communication. I can see how Christina’s version is a beautiful relationship with a great foundation.
Thanks for sharing your joyful & mature perspective.
March 23, 2011 1:04 pm
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You are totally right. Maybe it wasn’t clear enough in my comment. I absolutely agree, having watched my parents go through that. I guess what I meant was that if this side wasn’t working for us, but everything else was good we would be willing to entertain the idea rather than throw away a good relationship. I am also very cautious about no longer having emotional/intellectual needs met but that is a different issue. However, all of those aspects would have to be examined before embarking on an open relationship. Basically, you have to talk that stuff out before ANY action is taken. I was just expressing that it relieves me to know that my partner wants to make things good for us and wants there to be enough open communication that even this isn’t off the table. It makes me feel secure enough to discuss other things that also require as much open communication. :)
March 23, 2011 3:52 pm
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This post is thrilling to see here! I’ve been in polyamorous/open relationships for almost 10 years, and happily head-over-heels in a poly relationship with a man I could see myself marrying for just over 2.
Just as Christina said, there are as many types of poly relationships as there are poly people. (I’m convinced this is true of monogamy as well.) So it’s fascinating to hear the way you make it work for you, which is in some ways very different from us, and in some ways precisely the same. For example, that he and I always come first for one another. (Yes! So much yes!) But we do date other people separately, instead of as a couple, and that works for us really well.
Thanks for giving some air time to my lifestyle, APW, and Christina, thank you so much for writing this!
March 23, 2011 7:14 am
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No one can say that APW takes the easy way…! This is quite a brave topic but its’s really cool that it can be spoken about in a safe way. Definately so much of what Christina says applies to any relationship – about communication, trust, boundaries, respecting other people’s choices and owning your own. Personally, I think there’s a strong beauty and simplicity in choosing to make your life about one person, and them being enough for you..putting your eggs all in one basket so to speak. For me, that’s kinda what marriage means. But it’s so…valuable…(that’s the only word I can think of!) to look at things from different sides.
March 23, 2011 7:17 am
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Also, love that you linked to “Waiting until marriage…” post. Not only was it a amazing re-read (and hilarious!), but it’s another really good example of choices away from the mainstream, which other people might not ‘get’ if they looked in from the outside. So much to think about!
March 23, 2011 7:22 am
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Not to be hurtful, and hopefully not to be critical of other’s lifestyle choices, but this is the kind of post that makes me be very thoughtful about my choice to keep visiting APW. The post does present interesting ideas (and I applaud the writer for sharing with this community!) but… there’s not a lot of meat to chew on there. Which I’ve come to realize is not really the point of APW, it being more of a women’s magazine type of blog than a Serious Pointy Head Blog. Like duh Lucy.
For instance, one of the topics roiling my circle of snooty intellectuals is the current impulse in Western civilizations to redefine institutions, including marriage. I’m not talking about gay marriage, but about redefining all the elements in general. When you take out gender, number of participants, sexual exclusivity of participants, and permanence of the bond, what is left of the concept of marriage?
Taking into account the probably inevitable legalization of polygamous marriages and gay marriages, marriage basically becomes a sanctioned partnership between any size group of adults of any gender that can be dissolved at any time. If you remove sexual exclusivity, it is indistinguishable from a business group, except that their association with each other is based on love and not profit.
Maybe that will be the new definition of marriage: A sexual association of people based on love? But anyway. The problem my friends and I discussed last night instead of watching our movie was the possibility of redefining institutions away. The point made was that marriage was not all that long ago very specifically defined, with sharp demarcating edges all around: either married or not, pledged to you forever or not, pledged to you alone or not. That is supposedly what made it a powerful institution; it said something very specific about your relationship .
As the demarcating lines grew blurrier it has lost its pull (an institution is stronger and more powerful when society defines it for you; less so when you get to define it for yourself. Regardless of the rest of the argument I think that’s very true). I think the data is clear that marriage is in decline as a category people choose for themselves, period, and could it be because they don’t see the point? In fact one of my girlfriends last night said it exactly, she doesn’t want to get married because it’s pointless because it’s not necessarily forever.
And so, at the end of this novel-length comment, this is the kind of issue I would have liked to see addressed in the post, but I realize that APW is not a philosophy blog or ethics blog and maybe Christina hasn’t wrangled with such issues or just doesn’t feel like articulating her thoughts on them, which is fine! Maybe I’m a bit biased because I personally don’t feel open relationships aren’t an ethical choice in the 21st century given the epidemic of sexual disease. I realize not everyone feels that way!
March 23, 2011 7:25 am
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You can’t fault someone for not writing the post you would have written. She wrote a very beautiful, honest post about her relationship, but it’s clearly not about the way you’re thinking about relationships at the moment.
More specifically, the argument you’re making does not carry a lot of historical weight. For most of the history of marriage it has commonly involved one man and multiple wives. So your argument works only if you’re looking at a very limited historical period. While APW is not an academically focused blog, and never will be, I do spend a fair amount of time researching the history of weddings and marriage (I am, after all, writing a book), and I don’t think you’re giving your argument near enough historical ballast.
I also don’t agree with the argument you’re making, and am never going to make that the over-riding message of APW, but that’s another story.
March 23, 2011 7:38 am
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I agree that the historical dimension is important but I think if it’s being invoked, we need specificity. When we talk about “the history of marriage”, what culture are we talking about? What span of time are we considering? What are we recognising as marriage? The word only enters the English language in the medieval period, and at that time it’s actually something very similar to what’s currently recognised in Britain.
March 24, 2011 4:43 am
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The point is the historical definition is *not* in fact being invoked, at all. If I were to invoke it, it would be with footnotes. That might happen at some point in the future, but it wasn’t part of this post and it didn’t need to be. This post was beautiful on its own.
March 24, 2011 8:39 am
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Oh sure, my observation was only in response to the two comments above which seemed to be talking history – I don’t think Christina’s post should have been anything other than what it was.
March 26, 2011 2:05 pm
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I think you are right in saying that part of the strength of marriage is that is socially/culturally defined construct that has a defined meaning. As a woman who is married to another woman I really appreciate that folks know what I am talking about when I say I am married or when I refer to my wife, because there is that shared cultural understanding of marriage.
I think you are wrong in implying that marriage has always meant one thing and one thing only and it is being defined away. Like all cultural institutions, marriage has changed over time and is different in different societies. Plural marriage is still common in many parts of the world (although it’s usually only the men who get to have multiple spouses). The age at which we get married has changed over time, as have cultural taboos about marrying relatives. Marriage is a dynamic institution, which gives it strength and meaning and, I believe, keeps it relevant to those who chose to enter into it.
March 23, 2011 7:39 am
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You’re totally right that marriage is a dynamic institution and that it’s different in different parts of the world. But the question is, what happens when a particular culture engages in rapid re-definition of an institution? Does it build the institution up (make it more adaptable) or wear it down? In the space of about one generation (40ish years) the Western concept of marriage has been altered quite a bit, practically overnight when you look at how fast we can effectively absorb social change. I would expect to see similar decay among poly-amorous societies that switched to monogamy over the same length of time.
March 23, 2011 7:53 am
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While I agree that there has been significant change in the instution of marriage over the past 40 years (yay birth control!), I think it’s important to also acknowledge the significant change seen in the 40 years before that. The idea of romantic love leading to marriage is a relatively new one, whereas 150 years ago (estimated) marriage was more of a business exchange. I think if we look at marriage in a vaccuum, sure it’s evolving, but not at any more of a rapid rate than it ever has.
I think it’s also important to distinguish the difference between a blog that seeks to reinforce a certain definition of marriage and one that seeks to represent the definitions of marriage in all their many forms. I would put APW in the latter category.
I think if we look at APW for example, we could argue that maybe it’s not the definition of marriage that’s changing, but our willingness to acknowledge those marriages that are different from the culturally defined norm that has evolved. Maybe the Christinas of the world have been here all along, and only now are we open enough to acknowledge that they are a valid part of the married community (which for the record, I believe wholeheartedly).
March 23, 2011 8:02 am
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A small quibble to ensure fair representations of humans of the past :) Romantic love leading to marriage goes back an awful lot longer than that (you can read impassioned attacks on the barbarity of parents forcing their offspring into loveless matches from 16th- and 17th-c. Eng., for example, or just look at the literature), and on the other hand I would say the business/financial/economic aspect of marriage is still very much present.
March 24, 2011 4:30 am
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While that’s of course correct, the fact that the institution of marriage is changing just as fast (or as slow) as always, still holds.
March 24, 2011 8:41 am
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It builds it up, no question.
As a woman married to a man, my marriage … and other’s views of my marriage … is not in any way diminished by the changes in law over the past 40 years. No one looks at us and says “yah, but THEY can get married too, so it doesn’t mean anything.”
MARRIAGE has nothing to do with the law, and everything to do with loving someone enough that you want to spend the rest of your life with them, and they with you. In all the many shapes and forms that can (and does) take. No amount of law is going to make that any less special.
Legal recognition is fine and dandy (and, I believe, should be available to ALL), but it does not MAKE a marriage. Lives and hearts and partners do.
March 23, 2011 8:10 am
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AMEN.
Marriage law is only concerned with property rights and children.
WE ALONE define what marriage is to us.
If you are in a room with 20 married couples, you have 20 different definitions of marriage right there.
March 23, 2011 9:03 am
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I view this argument the same way I view the argument that the English language is decaying due to technology. That is, our language and grammar rules are changing drastically and quickly because of the internet, web writing, texting and email. But language is constantly evolving and has been for centuries. If it wasn’t constantly evolving, we’d all be speaking Latin or some shit.
Same thing with marriage. Marriage right now is changing drastically and quickly, in part because of technology, but it has been evolving for centuries too. If it wasn’t, all of us and our dowries would be handed over by our fathers to whoever was within our class.
Should we stop progress just because there’s a possibility that it might wear the institution down?
Like language and grammar rules, the institution marriage is not going anywhere anytime soon.
March 23, 2011 8:24 am
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Just want to hop in here and say that just because 1) people have more choice in marriage and 2) divore rates are climbing at the same time does not mean that #1 causes #2. Widely available divorce is a fairly recent development in the evolution of the institution, so I think that it is fair to consider that people stayed together because there was no alternative. Of course marriage is forever if divorce doesn’t exist; but does that mean that those were happy and healthy marriages? Absolutely not.
As to the point that marriage has become a pointless institution– other people’s choices do not invalidate ours. Christina choosing an open marriage does not lessen the value of my marriage. If Christine decided her $20 bill looked better cut up and taped to her wall, my $20 bill would still be worth the same amount– we just have different preferences.
March 23, 2011 11:50 am
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“I would expect to see similar decay among poly-amorous societies that switched to monogamy over the same length of time.”
But no “switch” is complete. It’s not a black/white, on/off situation. I do field research in place where people have practiced polygamy and polyandry for centuries. (Are those just the anthropological terms for ‘polyamory’?) Changing economic and political conditions have re-shaped those traditional practices toward [explicit, state-sanctioned] monogamy – but that doesn’t mean the historical practices go away over night. Neither does the rise of gay marriage, polyamory, and diverse forms of partnership in the US mean that ‘traditional’ [whatever that is] marriage is on the decline. It means there are a greater number of practices to suit the needs of various individuals – some of which were simply underground or unlabeled in the past. Marriage is as much a political and economic institution, and an institution of social discipline, as it is a moral and ethical one.
March 23, 2011 3:50 pm
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Late here, but this is my field of study. Polygamy, polyandry, and polygyny are all terms for multiple marriages. Polyamory is a term for multiple romantic relationships. Some polyamorous people are interested specifically in polygamy–although they might not call it that, given the word’s negative connotations. Many are specifically NOT interested in being married to more than one person, even if they seek romantic relationships with more than one person.
March 24, 2011 11:01 am
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I don’t really think APW is more like a woman’s magazine…in fact compared to all the other wedding blogs saved on my computer, this is by far the most thought provoking…it tries to get to the root of issues rather than just showing us pretty pictures of flowers (which are nice too!)
But, I do think you kinda said in a smarter way what I was trying to say before. Is it not the exclusivity of marriage that defines it as marriage? Maybe it all depends on how see marriage in the first place… as a social construct, a nice way of expressing love, as security or something more. For me marriage is those things – but it’s also spiritual- it’s a uniting and a connection between two people in this crazy close way, in a way that you don’t connect with other people. And one of the crucial parts of it is that you give yourself to one other person, and they give themselves to you. A somehow those two people become one person.
I guess what I’m trying to say in the most loving way is that…whilst I don’t agree with everything that this post says, it’s made me think, it’s made me re-question what I think marriage actually means and my definitions of it, it’s made me think about trust and commitment, and that’s a good thing.
March 23, 2011 8:01 am
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“For me marriage is those things – but it’s also spiritual- it’s a uniting and a connection between two people in this crazy close way, in a way that you don’t connect with other people.”
Yes. But part of the point is that you can still have this in a polyamorous relationship. Their primary relationship is still with each other, and they share things with each other that they DON’T share with others. It’s just that they are able to define those things that they share as being more than sex. And while I’m not in a poly relationship, I think they are right. My spiritual/ religious bond with my partner is about a whole lot more than sex.
March 23, 2011 8:07 am
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I wasn’t talking about sex at all really. I was more talking about closeness and comittment…
And yeah, I see how Christina says that their primary relationship is with each other. What I’m saying is that it doesn’t work out in my head, with my understandings of marriage, for my relationship, and I don’t think that’s a particularly bad thing to say. Through Christina’s post she’s let me see a bit into her world, how it can work for other people too, which is really interesting.
March 23, 2011 8:24 am
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As someone who has been in a poly relationship for 11 years, and married for 1, this is a really interesting discussion for me to read.
The fact that my husband and I play (have sex with/flirt with/engage in kink with) other people does not in any way diminish the level of closeness and commitment that we have for each other. We chose specifically to get married because we believe that we want to spend the rest of our lives together, because we are the most important people in the world to each other, because we are lucky enough to get to participate in a ceremony that gives us legal rights based on those things. Our wedding was a celebration of our love for each other, in the same way that any monogamous couple’s wedding would have been.
I understand that the things that we allow each other to share with other people may seem strange and confusing, but it is no more strange and confusing than rigidly defined gender roles or separate hobbies that your spouse hates are to me.
Marriage is about sharing your life with someone. About planning a future and enjoying a present. The fact that we have close friends who we have sex with and you have close friends who you don’t doesn’t make our marriages fundamentally different.
I’m not sure how well I’ve expressed that. I hope it makes sense.
Thank you to Christina and Meg for the post. It’s lovely to be represented. : )
March 23, 2011 11:34 pm
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If more women’s magazines were like APW, I would subscribe to a whole lot more women’s magazines.
March 23, 2011 8:49 am
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We don’t need no stinkin magazines. ;)
March 23, 2011 9:15 am
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I found your post thought provoking, but I would argue that APW does touch on the main issue you raise; the “why” of getting married today.
The one line of your comment that rubbed me the wrong way came at the very end. As a future-sex-educator, I have to object to your opinion that open relationships are unethical due to the “epidemic of sexual disease” (I think that’s what you meant right?)
It’s perfectly valid to say that you are not comfortable with the health risks involved with non-conventional-monogamy, but it’s another to project that discomfort onto others. There are numerous ways for people to be responsible about their sexual health, and it’s up to each individual to decide what level of risk they’re willing to take. As long as all parties involved are being honest and open about their choices, there’s nothing unethical about it.
March 23, 2011 8:02 am
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Yes. This! Exactly. I tried to make this comment earlier and couldn’t figure out a way to say it that wasn’t prickly.
March 23, 2011 8:18 am
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Jessica,
That is a great clarification about ethics. Ethics and risk are two different things.
March 23, 2011 8:37 am
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Meg already said this in other words, but I just wanted to add: I think there are two ways to consider the issue of a changing definition of marriage in the West or polyamorous relationships specifically. The wide-angle lens view considers sociological and cultural shifts. The narrower view considers the reality of the microcosm of one relationship or group of relationships. Christina’s essay is about the truth and functioning of HER relationship, and this is just as valid a discussion as a truth about large sociological and cultural trends. I don’t think that her failure to discuss the context of her relationship in the wider culture negates the truth of her own experience.
Also, I would strongly recommend Stephanie Coontz’ Marriage, A History.
March 23, 2011 8:18 am
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I loved Marriage, A History! I re-read it before my wedding and my husband read it too. I also read What Is Marriage For? by E.J. Graff, another one I can’t remember, and articles on the site unmarried.org. I had read all of this the first time for a term paper in college on redefining marriage in the US… now I want to go back and check it all out again. :)
Anyway, I highly recommend Coontz’s book as well.
March 23, 2011 5:49 pm
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A heads up, when you start something with “not to be hurtful,” it’s basically an indication that you know what you’re saying is hurtful, same as “not to be rude, but” or “I’m not racist, but”. If you find yourself leading with that kind of phrase, suck it up and acknowledge that you’re being a jerk, or hold your tongue.
I spent a good chunk of my engagement hearing about how giving me rights similar to marriage (not even the word! not even marriage!) would devalue the concept of marriage.
This stuff is personal for some of us.
March 23, 2011 12:05 pm
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LYDIA WROTE: “I spent a good chunk of my engagement hearing about how giving me rights similar to marriage (not even the word! not even marriage!) would devalue the concept of marriage.”
Lydia, don’t you wish those people would at least ATTEMPT a more logical argument?
Oh wait. There isn’t one. ;)
March 23, 2011 5:54 pm
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I noticed you were also talking about the duration of the bond as well as the number of participants. As a legal institution it’s true that it isn’t necessarily until one dies. But I think practically everyone still enters into marriage with the intention that it should end with their death or widowhood. I don’t see that adding extra people in changes that. So maybe that’s a part of the definition of marriage that remains. It’s not part of the legal institution, but then nor is love — the government can hardly check up to see if you love each other.
I don’t feel like my concept of marriage is weakened by hearing about open relationships (though not for me — being in love with one person is enough vulnerability, eh?) I think the legal institution of marriage would be weakened by having marriage between more than two people, or by not assuming that marriages are sexually exclusive (ie not assuming a child’s mother’s husband is that child’s father). But weakened in the technical sense, like a definition is weaker when it has fewer conditions in it, not weakened in a literal sense, like a bridge. It might be a good thing.
This is a jolly serious discussion for a women’s magazine, isn’t it? It’s only a matter of time before someone starts talking about necessary and sufficient conditions, or paradigms, or something. If APW were academic it would be too much like being at work for a lot of people here!
It would be a funny old world if we were all alike! (That’s my profound insight anyway…)
March 23, 2011 3:17 pm
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Um, this post looks less-than-tactful under Lydia’s post. It isn’t personal for me, so I’ve probably put my foot in it. Oh dear…
March 23, 2011 3:37 pm
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I’m late to the party here but that’s par for the course.
Anyhoodle — as someone who has studied lots of STD related stuff I can tell you that humankind has pretty much always had “an epidemic of sexual disease.” Why? Because people like to boink and it’s just one of those things. (Can you tell I am trying to keep this short and sweet?)
Old timey sailors with syphillis? Ladies of the night with the clap? These things have been jumping from host to host for as long as people have been inserting Tab A into Slot B (or D into G or whatever your bag is).
Just because AIDS is a relatively new kid on the block doesn’t mean that STDs are a modern phenomenon.
March 23, 2011 7:10 pm
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This quote applies to so many aspects of life…”It might be stupidity, but it feels more like bravery. Because even with all the statistics against us, we still want to work for something that makes us happy.” Thanks for sharing your awesome perspective with us.
I love how you talk about sharing instead of splitting. This is very valuable, regardless of the basis of the relationship (i.e. I seem to get jealous every time my husband hangs out with his guy friends…I obviously need to work on this!). So thanks. You rock.
March 23, 2011 7:30 am
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My beau and I “dated” our best friend. We celebrated our anniversary with her for 3 years in a row. I was always a little confused about how we managed to be such a successful trio and the friendship not stepping on our relationship’s toes, but it worked out so wonderfully. Now that she’s across the country, we both miss her a lot.
Thanks for helping me understand these feelings better – we may not be in an “open” relationship, and our trio was not sexual in nature, but a lot of the themes you talk about rung true for us, and I can appreciate what you say about “love is not a zero sum game”.
March 23, 2011 7:36 am
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I’m really glad to see this post. I have known people who attempted non-monogamy and really struggled with it. I completely support doing what works for you, however, so I love hearing what various things work for different people. I find it highly wonderful to talk about boundaries and foundations and how things change and flex and have to be right for the two of you.
I highly respect you taking this less-traveled road, and opening yourself up this way takes crazy strength.
March 23, 2011 7:40 am
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ah, yes. Thank you APW, this is why I love you.
March 23, 2011 7:47 am
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I loved this post. I love your point that “there are about as many kinds of polyamory as there are polyamorists,” because I’ve seen so many different approaches to open relationships—some which work and some which set off drama bombs. I’m so glad you and your partner have a framework that works for you.
And on a more personal note, I delighted this post was completely devoid of monogamy-bashing, which Dan Savage is sometimes guilty of. Then again, people who think polyamory can’t possibly work can get snapped out of that mindset by being told that monogamy can’t possibly work, and thinking, “Don’t you tell me what I want from my relationship!”
March 23, 2011 7:56 am
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I love that you wrote this, and I really enjoyed reading it. I truly believe there are as many different kinds of love as there are people in the world, and I’m so glad to hear about your love and relationship and how it is working outside the mainstream.
March 23, 2011 7:59 am
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I love this post so much. My marriage ended a few years after opening it up, but that wasn’t because of opening it up. It was because of why and how we did it, and all the things that were really really wrong in our marriage that were just impossible to hide when the marriage was opened.
It would take absolutely amazingly right circumstances for me to ever think an open marriage is right for me again (and the fact that I was pressured into it the first time says a lot about why that marriage is over, no?), but in the process of learning about polyamory and all that nontraditional relationship stuff, I’ve acquired a deep respect for people who love well in any configuration. It’s not easy to engage in ethical nonmonogamy, and I salute the two of you for doing a good job of it, both with each other and with your other partners.
March 23, 2011 8:09 am
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You and me both! Opening a relationship for the wrong reasons almost dooms it to failure, I think.
March 24, 2011 10:11 am
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Thank you for inviting us to have a look into your marriage. I know it’s a very personal (and brave) thing to open up on a subject people already have such preconceived notions about. An open marriage/relationship is not for us, but you two have a very similar foundation to your relationship nonetheless. And those things – communication, showing love, consideration for the other, a defined set of principles that make up your relationship – those are the common ground that are important. Congratulations on your lovely marriage and I wish you all the best.
March 23, 2011 8:11 am
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YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY!
March 23, 2011 8:12 am
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This is the first explanation of open marriage that has made sense to me. Thanks, Christina. I knew that the concept wasn’t so weird, but your words really make sense. I’m always surprised that their aren’t more open relationships when people seem equally enamored with monogamy and sewing their oats (for lack of a crude opposite).
March 23, 2011 8:19 am
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This was a very interesting and thought provoking post. While I know this could never ever work for me, it is in a funny way, comforting to know that there are people for whom it does work, who work hard to make it work.
However, I do have questions. Are you and you husband planning to have children? Will your marriage continue to be open after you have had children? I ask, because I know how exhausting and difficult life can be once you have had children, especially when they are little, I know many couples who struggle to make time just for their own relationship, let alone for other relationships. Children are also notoriously indiscreet, and I am unsure how ‘open’ you are about your open relationship. Is is something you would be comfortable parents and teachers at your child’s school knowing about? While I think secrecy about one’s relationships is seldom a good thing, I wonder how you feel about potentially opening up yourself to judgement and criticism from others? How do you deal with that now? After all, there are few communities as supportive and open-minded as the APW community.
I am asking these questions out of genuine curiosity, not from any spirit of criticism.
Thank you for sharing the details of your marriage with us.
March 23, 2011 8:38 am
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Actually, we talked about the kids thing a lot. And really, it depends. So to answer your question about being open after we have kids….
The short answer is: probably not.
The long answer is: We’ve entertained the idea of having a poly home. A commune. Whatever you want to call it. If we were in a relationship with another couple or another woman and decided to all live together in the country and raise our kids together, that would be awesome. But the chances of that working out are pretty slim… so I guess you could just call it our fantasy :) And we would probably be open about it within our community.
Truth be told, the only people who don’t know about our lifestyle are our parents. Everyone else knows, and you wouldn’t believe how many people are totally cool with it. Maybe that’s because we live in San Francisco, but maybe not.
Thanks for the questions, I hope I answered them!
March 23, 2011 9:22 am
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I’ve known of poly communities, so I think it can happen. I think often, though, when the kids are young no one has energy for other relationships, but then things may change again when kids are older.
March 23, 2011 9:52 am
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My former neighbors had an open marriage (I assume they still do, but I’ve lost touch with them since we both moved). They had two small boys when living in our apartment building, and I asked how that worked with kids (we had the kind of relationship where we could talk about this stuff – it wasn’t just a random question). She told me that in practical terms, with a toddler and an infant, they weren’t really acting on the openness in their marriage, but were looking forward to getting that back once the boys got a little older and their care wasn’t so all consuming. There are lots of ways it can work, as you discussed above, but this is one way I’ve known closely.
March 23, 2011 10:20 am
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Not Christina, obviously, but as a poly person with kids — My triad has 2 daughters (5 & 7), conceived in the triad, not before — it is surprisingly easy deal with (though it helps that we are lucky in our jobs not being the kind of care.) Given how common divorce, step-parenting, and same-sex parents are, a lot of people don’t even blink that my girls have two moms and a dad. And even the ones that take the time to figure out the actual configuration pretty much roll with it when they see that my girls are happy and healthy. (Admittedly, I live in Seattle, which helps.)
And for me, since I was out as queer long before poly was an issue, it was pretty natural… the closet, on the other hand, was a real struggle.
March 23, 2011 10:58 am
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Jeliza, your comment is incredibly encouraging! I don’t know any poly couples with kids, so it is nice to hear that it can work out so well down the road.
March 23, 2011 11:02 am
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Self-link! Here’s a post we did on Offbeat Mama about polyamorous parenting: http://offbeatmama.com/2010/07/poly-parenting
March 23, 2011 9:54 pm
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lovely post! Thanks Ariel!!
March 24, 2011 10:29 am
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This post leaves me with one burning question, and maybe it’s beyond the scope of the post.
I understand the point that the marriage comes first, before any other partners. And I understand stopping an outside relationship if it’s impacting the marriage in a negative way.
BUT, how do you care for the feelings of the third or fourth party? If you back away from them to nurture your own marriage, what do you do about their feelings?
Like I said, this question may to straying too far into details that the post isn’t intended to cover. ;)
March 23, 2011 8:45 am
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I think that’s a really valid question. And it’s usually handled like this:
When we begin dating someone, we are very clear that our marriage comes first no matter what. Recently we decided to reign it in and be monogamous for a while, and it required turning down the heat with a third party. It wasn’t easy for anybody. But the third party was incredibly understanding, and admired us for being able to know that we needed it AND being able to deal with it so openly with her. It’s just like any other breakup. It’s disappointing, but it happens. And it’s better if it’s all handled maturely.
With that said, we don’t do it all the time. Like dating someone for two weeks and calling it quits every other month…. We’re very cautious about getting into relationships with others mostly because of this issue. We try to only give ourselves when we know we’re in a good place and will be for a while. I could say a ton more on the topic as it’s kinda, well, really complicated — but I’ll leave it at that :)
March 23, 2011 9:38 am
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Thanks, Christina, No need to say more. Obviously, the third party has to understand what they’re getting into and be sure they can handle it.
I asked that question because I’m imagining my own feelings in an open marriage or being the third party. But then, I’m a Leo with Scorpio rising and a Scorpio moon. We are intense, loyal, and possessive folk. LOL
(never believed in astrology till I saw my personal chart)
March 23, 2011 10:23 am
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I’d love to hear from ‘third party’ who had a happy and successful long-term committed relationship with a couple. A close friend of mine was that person for awhile, but eventually had to leave the relationship because it was hard to get her emotional needs met. That left me wondering if the third, fourth,… nth parties need to have their own, different primary relationship(s) to ensure that they have someone in their corner.
March 23, 2011 4:04 pm
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In my experience… the third party either has their own primary. Or they are the kind of person that needs a lot of space, and a situation like this gives them just the right amount of emotional attachment, or whatever you might call it, that they need.
But having never been a third party myself, I would also love to hear as well.
March 23, 2011 5:22 pm
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I love that at the core of this post is the topic of communication and being in touch with your own needs and wants and being in touch with your partner’s needs and wants. This is something I think every couple struggles with at some point, no matter what type of relationship they have. The thing I think is so wonderful about Christina’s relationship is her and her partner’s ability to listen to each other. It’s incredibly mature and I applaud them.
March 23, 2011 8:55 am
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This post could not have come at a better time for me! My fiance & I have been navigating the challenging and fulfilling waters of Polyamory for roughly a year now. Going into a marriage with polyamory as a current lifestyle choice has really forced my fiance and I to search our souls, challenge ourselves, and discuss EVERYTHING. It can be tiring, stressful & overwhelming at times, but our relationship has reached new depths because of the openness polyamory requires.
It is so encouraging to read that someone else is going through the same struggles that we are. APW continues to impress me by tackling so many subjects with such thoughtful and respectful posts. Christina’s words give me hope that our divergent path is still a healthy one and joy that other couples are finding success and richness in their polyamorous relationships.
March 23, 2011 9:02 am
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“At the end of the day I think marriage and gender and class and race, will all be strengthened by the grey areas, where we wrestle with what they mean and are.”
“There are lots of other ways to be a partner and an adult.”
YES YES YES. These points are so, so true. I wish I could “exactly” the above a million times.
And for the record, I really appreciate the issues that APW brings up, and the people that make those issues real. I think that the types of discussions that are generated are deep and thought provoking, because the people who come to share are genuine and open. The fact that the community (and writers! Thank you Meg and Alyssa!) allows these types of discussions is unique among wedding blogs, and I seriously would be lost without it.
March 23, 2011 9:04 am
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Beautiful post! I love the way you describe the respect in your marriage/relationship, and that you two have a plan to put your marriage first. It’s very obvious how much you love and cherish each other. Thank you for such an informative post about something I didn’t have much knowledge about! :)
March 23, 2011 9:08 am
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Wow. I crept into work late this morning, made myself a cup of coffee and immediately opened APW. I was shocked (and delighted) to see the topic of non-monogamy come up in a post. Thank you Christina and thank you Meg, for this post!
“Truth be told, there isn’t a relationship out there that wouldn’t benefit from the amount of work, communication and constant introspection that it takes to manage an open marriage. ”
Absolutely…and to address Meg’s comment that you don’t need to be in an open relationship to have that sort of communication, those of us who have experienced it know how much work it is, and how you get to the raw emotions so much more quickly than I have experienced in any traditional relationship. You’re right Meg, you can get there in a more traditional relationship, absolutely. In an open relationship where you’re dealing with conscious non-monogamy, it’s required. You set boundaries, you feel, you talk, you re-set boundaries, you talk, you experience, you re-set them again.
I was just married in January to a wonderful man to whom my first words (after “I like your hair,” of course) were “I am not a fan of monogamy and I like women. Are you okay with that?” Thankfully, he was…and we built the foundation of our relationship knowing that if we were being honest with ourselves, and one another, that neither of us wanted to or were capable of sleeping with the same person for the rest of our lives. Beginning our relationship with that sort of raw honesty has been an amazing gift to both of us.
Like Christina, we don’t split, instead we share. Unlike Christina, our non-monogamous lifestyle isn’t about emotional connections and loving relationships with “others,” it’s just about sex. I could go on and on for days on this subject, but I should be working.
Thank you Christina, for shedding light on your open relationship. :)
March 23, 2011 9:47 am
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Chtistina~ Much love to you for making this work! I really appreciate that you and your husband know what you want out of life, what makes you happy, and are constantly striving for it. Thank you for sharing and I wish the best of life!
March 23, 2011 10:17 am
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There are so many wonderful things in this post! My husband and I toss around the idea of an open marriage, but we’re just not sure how to be comfortable with it. I appreciate your honesty and your insight. I also appreciate the discussion which you have created here. You’re wonderful for being so open about your marraige.
March 23, 2011 10:45 am
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“Wedded bliss is supposedly a risky thing these days.”
Surely it always is and always has been. Just because people got divorced less in the Old Days (a great phrase, ‘the old days’, saves knowing any actual history) doesn’t mean more people were in happy marriages. Oh and I entirely agree with the person above who said the Christinas of the world have always been with us, it’s just now people are allowed to be upfront about it — seems highly likely to me.
Thanks Christina!
March 23, 2011 11:37 am
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“Just because people got divorced less in the Old Days (a great phrase, ‘the old days’, saves knowing any actual history) doesn’t mean more people were in happy marriages”
This is sort of a tangent, but — am reading *House of Mirth* right now, and it’s tremendously eye-opening re: marriage in “the Old Days.” Fewer divorces, yeah, but lots of simmering unhappiness, suffocation, marriage-as-business-merger, and (often publicly acknowledged) affairs/flirtations.
March 23, 2011 1:35 pm
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Thought provoking post and commentary. I think you touched on some insightful points about the importance of boundaries and communication and their importance in all marriages. Thank you so much for sharing!
March 23, 2011 11:38 am
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Thanks to APW and Christina for covering this topic! So well put. I’ve been in open relationships in the past, and while it’s not what works for me anymore, I did learn a lot from going through them. The big love thing is HUGE. I had no idea I had been living under this myth that there’s only so much love in me, or in my partner, or in the world, and we have to divvy it up carefully. So not true. It also really teaches you to really spell things out with your partners. What exactly you want, need, what works and what doesn’t. Fabulous stuff. I’m happily monogamous now, and wouldn’t have it any other way, but going through the experience of open relationships really taught me a lot about the assumptions we all make.
March 23, 2011 11:48 am
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