APW Happy Hour


Happy Pride y'all!

by Kate Levy, Marketing Manager

HEY APW,

It’s officially Pride Month!! ??? Pride is by far one of my most favorite times of the year. And though yes the parties are great, more importantly, I always consider Pride to be a time for reflection. This year marks forty-eight years since the Stonewall Riots, considered to be one of the most pivotal moments in LGBTQ history in our country. These riots spearheaded a shift toward acceptance and understanding for our community, and two major gay activist organizations were formed to continue these efforts. A year later the first Pride parade in U.S. history was held in New York City. The fearlessness and strength of those activists, both gay and allies, have paved the way for all of us.

I constantly remind myself how fortunate my wife and I are to live where we do, in a supportive, accepting community. I don’t ever take for granted that I can walk down the middle of Market Street in San Francisco, proudly holding her hand, waving our rainbow flags every June. And I constantly think back to those who fought for the rights I can enjoy now.

In our current political climate it’s easy to feel like we’ve made little progress. But if we continue to be visible, we cannot be stamped out. Visibility matters and it matters for everyone. If you’re an ally, you can show your support through volunteer work, donations, and speaking out and teaching others. If you’re in the community and live in a supportive space, reach out to those who need our love and voices. If you are reading this, and you feel alone, just know you aren’t. Pride Month feels like a beacon of hope for all of us. It is a reminder that LOVE IS LOVE. And we can all do our part to keep that love shining bright.

Allies can be individuals or even big businesses; and as we’ve seen in recent months, when corporations take a stand in support of equal rights, it makes a huge difference in communities across the country. That’s why I’m so excited to announce that we are partnering with Crate and Barrel again this year for Pride Month. Crate and Barrel strives to provide an amazing experience for all couples planning their new life together. Join us all month long for stories of love and lots of tips for creating a beautiful wedding and home, APW style! Be sure to check out Crate and Barrel’s Private Registry Events coming up June 11 and July 16 in cities across the country. (I’ll be at the Union Square event next weekend with some APW couples, so be sure to say hi if you’re there!!)

CHEERS to love of all kinds!

XO,

KATE

 

Link Round-up

The Identity Project IS BACK to celebrate Pride Month.

Sarah Deragon, queer femme photographer badass, has her work covering Smirnoff’s Love Wins bottles.

8 brands whose Pride-themed merch gives back to the LGBTQ community.

92 governors and mayors who are denouncing Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris Climate Agreement.

Harvard is teaching a Game of Thrones class now.

The U.S. laws that allow underage girls to get married.

Performance of a lifetime: On invisible illness, gender, and disbelief.

Muslim groups raise nearly $500,000 for families of “Portland heroes.”

Kate Levy

Kate is APW’s Marketing Manager. This Bay Area native built her own business as a wedding hair and makeup artist, before shifting gears to work in marketing. She’s an avid iPhone photographer, loves all forms of social media (especially Instagram, #katesskylog), and makes a really mean chocolate chip cookie. Kate is a collector of spoons, enamel pins, and reusable bags she never actually brings to the store. When not getting sucked into the ASOS app or an Instagram hashtag blackhole, Kate can be found hanging on the Peninsula with her wife, 2 cats and 2 dogs.

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  • anonfortoday

    Two nights ago, my husband decided I should get my IUD out so that we can start trying TTC. !!!!! The one thing that keeps catching me is that if we don’t get pregnant in the first 3 months of trying, I’d be due either right in the middle of us moving and changing jobs or soon after. (We’re planning on moving next year late summer.) But, we also don’t want to wait to start trying just because of that.
    So, for those for whom the question fits…. Did you start trying to figure out your ovulation right after getting rid of your IUD? How long did it take for things to become more consistent?

    (I’m also aware that we can’t really plan anything, and that we’ll make things work regardless. Just figured I’d ask, anyway.)

    • Ashlah

      How exciting! I was on the Pill, not the IUD, but I’d suggest there’s no reason not to start tracking right away (unless you’re really set on attempting a laid back not-not-trying conception). Maybe you’ll be one of the lucky folks whose cycles return right away, or maybe you won’t, but at least you’ll be more informed about what’s going on inside your body either way. I’m usually a “the more information the better” kind of person, though. For some people, paying that much attention drives them crazy. For me, the not-knowing would drive me crazier. Good luck!

      • C.

        WSS. It took me probably close to 6 months before I felt like my cycles were consistent after coming off the Pill. We conceived at 8 months.

    • Katharine Parker

      My doctor has told me that one of the advantages of an IUD is that your cycle should return immediately after removal, to the point that you may get pregnant before you have a period, unlike the pill, where the hormones take a while to dissipate. I do not have experience to add to this, but good luck!

      • Anna

        Presumably depends on the IUD, no? I have the Mirena, which is itself hormonal, and I was told three weeks to nine months before fertility returns after removal. But maybe that’s just them being cautious with their recommendations? I haven’t tried taking it out and attempting to concieve, myself, so idk :-)

        • Katharine Parker

          This was regarding the Mirena–the hormone levels are low enough that your fertility should be back right away.

          • Anna

            Good to know, since we’re planning on having kids in the next 2-5 years and we have a VERY strong preference for about a one-month birth window – fiance is a high school teacher and everything will be vastly easier if he’s home with baby during the summer. My family has a long history of conceiving very easily and quickly, but the IUD was sort of a wild card in our plans. Hopefully this is in fact how it works out for us :-)

          • Amy March

            A one month birth window?!? Honestly maybe just work on getting over that now? That just isn’t how any of this works, and I hate to think of you setting yourselves up for disappointment!

          • Anna

            I mean, it’s obviously not something we can control with a ton of precision, you’re right. But my parents had me and my sister within two weeks of their “planned” dates, and ease of conception is pretty strongly genetic, so having a preference and planning around it to the best of our ability – with the understanding that we can’t actually rely on it working out exactly as intended – doesn’t seem completely insane.

          • idkmybffjill

            I would say, with baby making – you should be prepared for it to happen IMMEDIATELY or take a long time. Which it sounds like you’re definitely doing.

            We got pregnant the first time we didn’t exercise caution even though we thought we were completely not within the appropriate window, lots of people take months to conceive even when perfectly timing things.

            I sort of…. only thought the latter would happen to me and was like WUT when I was pregnant the second we thought about maybe trying soon.

          • nutbrownrose

            My mom got pregnant the exactly 2 times she had completely unprotected sex, and my aunt had at least 1 (possibly 2 or 3) “surprise!!! birth control is not meant for the Irish!”. Meanwhile, my other aunt had 2 kids, started thinking about a 3rd, and boom 3rd kid. So it’s a thing.
            My mom is also a teacher, and had my brother and I within 2 weeks of each other, at the end of April/beginning of May. So just enough time to take 4 months with each and start back in September. It is possible. But also heed the advice of those not blessed with absurd conception rates, obviously.

          • another prego (former)

            right! and you could be ‘due’ on a certain date and then have baby 4 – 6 weeks early (several of my friends) or 2 weeks late (me!). think of the ‘due date’ as a suggestion… babies will come when they want/are ready and you have no control over that!!

          • BSM

            I was 3 weeks late and ended up being born in the next year (due in Dec, born in Jan)! My dad was bummed they missed out on maximizing that tax credit lol.

          • Mary Jo TC

            I’m a high school teacher and I was able to plan my babies to take advantage of summer break, so it is possible! My family also has a history of easy fertility. We took one month to conceive our first, and 2 to conceive the second. It also helps to be young-ish I guess. I was 28 and 31. So it is possible! Good luck!

        • another prego (former)

          I was told about 3 month (average) with the mirena or hormonal bc pills, and could be right away with copper IUD, but technically right away with all options!

        • aldeka

          Yeaaaah, that’s doctor caution/encouraging patience. My kid’s another first-cycle-after-removal baby. I even (apparently) ovulated a week later than I thought I would and we still happened to conceive…

      • another prego (former)

        I am the cautionary tale on this thread… IT HAPPENED TO ME! I had the copper IUD (no hormones) and got prego my first full cycle after I had it removed. I had it removed, about 2 weeks later had a period, literally ‘had relations’ twice, then wound up prego before my next period was due! When I got it removed, the nurses and doctors were all saying, ‘if you don’t want to get pregnant right away, you should use other forms of protection because you are technically fertile once it’s removed… blah, blah, blah..” And, when I went I called with a positive prego test, they were like, “yeah, that happens fairly often!”

    • penguin

      Just checking – your husband decided you should get your IUD out? Or you AND your husband decided? Since you sound excited about it I’m assuming all is well, just wanted to ask.

      • anonfortoday

        ohmygosh that’s an embarrassing typo– thanks so much for checking in! Yes, I meant to say “My husband and I decided to take my IUD out”. Uff da.

        • just here to say that I love the use of Uffda :) Fellow Minnesotan?

          • Les

            My Idaho/Oregon Grandma taught be Uffda! Wonder where she got it?

          • ssha

            Here in MN, we say it came from the Swedes. :)

          • Les

            You just solved a huge mystery for me! We are mostly Swedish!!

          • ssha

            Glad to help, haha!

    • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

      Might depend a bit on which kind? If it was a type with hormones, I imagine it’ll take a little time for them to work out of your system entirely. That said, I have Mirena, and was told that my system would return to normal pretty much immediately after removal.

      • Lisa

        Mirena’s hormones thicken the mucus of the cervix and thin the lining of the uterus to prevent fertilization and implementation; it may not change ovulation at all! I still get my period with Mirena, which is an indication that I’m probably still ovulating even with it in.

        • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

          Yeah, I get mild cramps and spotting with Mirena, which didn’t happen after a decade of NuvaRing, so something is still functioning behind the scenes.

    • Natalie

      I had a copper IUD, and after my first period post-removal, which came early (I think due to the removal), my cycle was perfectly regular. Like, more regular than it was when I had the IUD in. I started tracking with Clue immediately and it’s been super helpful.

    • E.

      My sister got pregnant days after taking her IUD out, so it’s possible!

  • Katharine Parker

    I’m officially getting married next month! Other July brides, how are you feeling? This week has been good–we sent rehearsal dinner invites, I sent shower thank you notes, our rings are ready, we’re figuring out welcome bags, I met with the organist and cantor to decide on music for the ceremony. I’m so ready for the wedding to be here, though. I’m sure the next month will fly by.

    • Her Lindsayship

      Fellow July bride here, I’m feeling so not chill right now. We just sent out invites, which is about a month later than I wanted to send out invites, but at least our wedding is at the *end* of July and folks got a save the date back in February. We have so much still to do, and my fiancé doesn’t have much free time because he works for a startup, but I refuse to do the work alone (and in a lot of cases, I really can’t do it alone). Stressful as it is, I’m glad we’re coming into the home stretch. I’m hoping the work of writing our ceremony, finalizing the schedule, and picking out music will be a lot more fun than booking vendors has been. Good luck with everything!

    • Hannah

      Late July for us! I’m feeling… not chill. Not stressed, necessarily, but definitely wishing we had more time. I was hoping we’d have our ceremony polished and ready by now; but we haven’t even even finished a rough draft. Also haven’t quite figured out our decor – we both want to keep it simple, but I do care about it being pretty, while my fiancée is stubbornly indifferent about anything design-oriented. Wishing I had a bestie nearby to bounce ideas off of. (My sister and best friend have been helpful, but they are both several time zones away.) But my partner and I are both finishing our school years in the next two weeks (she is getting her master’s next Thursday!), so we are planning to kick things into gear thereafter. And we cannot wait to see all our lovely friends and family – almost everyone we invited is coming!

  • Laura C

    Welp, my husband was hit with a tax levy. It’s not even his fault, either! Last October we, jointly, got a notice that we owed Massachusetts money from an audit of our 2013 taxes. Problem: We got married in 2014 and I did not live or pay taxes in Massachusetts in 2013, so this was obviously wrong in a way that made us question the whole thing. My husband contacted his accountant (who did the only Massachusetts taxes either of us filed in 2013) and asked them to look into it. He followed up repeatedly over months — they asked for powers of attorney from each of us to deal with it, we signed them, he got a letter from the state that was addressed only to him, he followed up with the accountant again to say ok, but what is this actually about, whoever it’s addressed to, etc etc. His understanding as of his last call was they had it under control. And then he looked at his bank statement yesterday, and the state had put a hold on the money plus a late fee. So he follows up again with his accountant, who attaches a letter explaining that due to their 2013 error he does owe the money and it needs to be paid by early May and they’re repaying him for various late fees and money he paid them to do the taxes to begin with. A letter and checks they say they gave his mother when she was in to do her taxes in MARCH.

    Which my MIL first denies any memory of having received, then asks if we’re sure she didn’t send it to us. (Yeah, we would have remembered getting $800 in checks and a sheet of instructions to pay $1800 to the state; the only mail you’ve sent us all year was a birthday card for the baby, and when you visited in April you brought a different check that you’d misplaced since August, but didn’t mention anything about this.) Then, when my husband says he plans to call the state department of revenue to explain the situation and ask that since it was not his fault they at least not to report it to the credit bureaus so his credit score doesn’t take a hit, she says “I don’t think that would happen.” He’s like “tax liens are exactly the kind of thing that hurts your credit!” “Oh,” she says. “I didn’t know that.” When he hangs up he says “She didn’t know that? How did I ever listen to her about anything important?” Then later she calls him back to try to blame him: why didn’t he follow up with the accountant earlier to avoid this? So he goes through every contact he’s had with the accountant since October, and she’s going “How was I supposed to know that? Don’t get so defensive.” Uh, you explicitly suggested he was negligent when he had followed up repeatedly and your accountant (who is some kind of old family friend) repeatedly failed to communicate with him, culminating in giving you the explanation of the situation, instructions on what to do, and repayment for their screw-up. Which you then forgot you’d received.

    This morning — after we sent a polite but angry email last night mostly focused on how wildly inappropriate it was to just hand things off to his mother and not take five minutes to shoot him an email explaining that he did owe money and was on a deadline to pay it — the accountant called and said she’d called the department of revenue and that they’d indicated that at this point it wouldn’t be reported to credit bureaus, and she would remain on the case to try to come to the best resolution possible. So at least my husband isn’t going to be spending the day on the phone trying to convince various agencies that it’s the accountant’s fault — she can do that her own self. But he got up at about 3am because he couldn’t sleep, he was so upset about this, so everything else is going to be a huge struggle for him today.

    • Ashlah

      Good lord, what a pain all of that is. I can’t believe the accountant would think it was appropriate to just give that information and money to your mother-in-law! And her phone calls…woof. I’m glad it (sounds like) things are on the right track now, but jeez! I can’t imagine you’ll be using this accountant anymore?

    • Amy March

      That is all outrageous. Does MIL have the money? Is she sending it to you immediately?

      • Laura C

        She doesn’t know. She’s in India now so she’ll look when she gets home. But she seriously does not seem to remember this, so we don’t know whether they just handed her an envelope and said it was for my husband and didn’t emphasize that it was important and on a deadline, or whether they told her all that and she still forgot. And frankly, either is possible. When she downsized her house she presented my husband with three bags of mail that she had never passed along to him. Most of it was credit card offers and bank statements, but it also included 2-4 year old tax documents for his cousin who had used her as a local address while he was in college and personal mail for his brother. But the accountant is obviously not super trustworthy either.

        • Lisa

          Sounds like it’s time to find a new accountant.

          • Laura C

            Believe me, for other reasons we were already doing so. We are using them this year because there were some things that involved him and his brother both, so rather than have two different accountants calculate out the same potentially labor intensive situation, we decided to go back to their accountant for this year only. Next year we’ll either use my family’s accountant or strike out on our own.

          • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

            Is there some regularity body to which you can report that accountant?

    • Lisa

      I can’t believe the accountants would entrust such important documents to a family member who doesn’t live with the person in question!! That seems like a major oversight on their part. Thank goodness he’s not going to have the black mark on his credit history.

      • Alli

        My fiance’s Dr gave his mother the news of “oh yeah he doesn’t have colon cancer” to his mother instead of calling him. She also goes to that Dr so I sort of get it..but why wouldn’t he be notified first?

        Edit: I think she’s also listed as his emergency contact/can be told things person, but it was still weird.

        • Laura C

          That’s massively unethical.

          • savannnah

            its also illegal unless fiance is under 18

          • Alli

            Tried to edit quickly, she is listed as someone who can know things, but I was really put off that he didn’t get a call first. Unless that’s also illegal and I just didn’t know?

          • emmers

            ohhhh, then that makes a difference. In that case I’d just call them and say hey, let me know first. And maybe take her off the list for the future.

          • savannnah

            The dr. is really bordering on that unethical/illegal line still- you really have first priority to your pt. first unless that pt. is incapacitated for some reason and then your proxy has priority.

          • Ashlah

            My mom has also been granted permission to speak to my doctors, but I still agree that it’s entirely inappropriate to give that sort of information to anyone but the patient first.

          • LP

            Also technically illegal. HIPAA says that you can tell parties information on a need to know basis. For example, somebody listed as an emergency contact can be notified of health information because they need to know the information in order to handle the emergency. Even if she is listed as somebody who can know things, technically, your husband should have to approve everything that actually gets told to her. This is true until a person is deemed incompetent to make their own decisions, which I assume your husband wasn’t at the time.

        • Ashlah

          Wtf! I would be so livid.

        • Katharine Parker

          That’s a HIPAA violation, so great job, doctor!

          • emmers

            That was my first thought! At the very least I’d call the doctor to let them know that’s a HIPAA violation (i.e. and to NEVER do that in the future), and if I was really pissed I’d also contact whatever board cares about stuff like that.

    • Alli

      Yikes, that is an infuriating read. I would be flipping tables if I were your husband!

    • emmers

      That really, really sucks. It sounds like a huge cluster, and that’s insane that the accountant thought it would be cool to pass on news/instructions like that through family versus, I don’t know, mailing, and/or emailing!

      After it all settles, or maybe even now, if you do end up having negative consequences (fines, credit report hits), it may be worth asking the accountant to compensate you for them, and/or lawyering up to get them to do so (especially if she’s not willing to do that on her own). And maybe even calling whatever (state?) board certifies accountants, to let them know about this. That sucks so much! And the mom component is infuriating.

      • JLC

        Yes. My dad’s accountant did my taxes for awhile, and since it was just a side-job for him, he sometimes left a packet for me with my parents. BUT: my legal address at that time was my parents’ house (even if I was off at college or working abroad) and he still required a signature that I had received it. It is annoying that the MIL forgot to hand over the letter, but she should never have been made responsible for the information anyway. (The result would have been similar if she had suddenly become medically incapacitated, or her mail was stolen, or any unforeseen event happened.) I would definitely expect the accountant to cover all the fees and do whatever else it takes to get things 100% back to normal w/r/t your finances and taxes.

      • Laura C

        That’s my feeling. Given the family relationship I feel like I can’t go nuclear immediately, and the fact that they were on the case first thing this morning makes me feel a little better, but if protecting my husband’s credit history means filing a formal complaint of some kind against the accountant, that’s what will happen.

    • AGCourtney

      WOW that sounds awful and stressful. I’m sorry you both have to deal with that.

    • Les

      How stressful and awful!!

  • Lisa

    We really enjoyed our experience with the Private Registry Events at C&B so I hope other APW couples will, too!

    Soooo… I think I talked my way into a new job? It’s at Badtown U still, but it’s in a much more lucrative line of work into which I’ve been looking to transition for the past six months or so. I’ve been talking with the men who are spearheading a conversion to the system I used before about their strategies and what’s coming up for the past year. One of them sent an e-mail this morning saying that, if he gets his way, he wants me for the job, and that the university will pay for the certification training I’d need (which I was planning to do out of pocket in the next month or so just to get the license/be hireable). He also put in for the salary I said I was targeting though he’s still waiting to hear back from the budget office. It would be in Badtown, and we’d probably have to stay at least another year, but…I’m kind of excited about this opportunity. Nothing’s official yet, and Dr. Husband continues to apply for faculty positions so things could theoretically change. Maybe it’s worth another year or two to get on a career path I’d actually enjoy?

    On a completely different note, we’re wrapping up our spring travel by heading to the most magical place on Earth tomorrow to celebrate my dad’s 60th! I am so looking forward to riding the Hogwarts Express back and forth, drinking around the world at Epcot, and generally not worrying about things for the first time in months.

    • Ashlah

      Congrats on the job front! However it pans out, it must feel good to know that they specifically want to hire you! Have a blast on your trip!

      • Lisa

        Thank you! Yes, I felt incredibly flattered when I got the e-mail this morning. This is the first “stretch” job I’ve been seriously considered for so it makes me feel good that someone else thinks I’m competent and potentially capable of pulling it off. Reading through the draft job description felt a little like syllabus day (“How will I ever be able to do all of these things??”), but I’m excited to learn how to do the tasks and develop solutions for the first time.

    • emmers

      Congratulations! It’s great that you have both direction and someone who’s looking out for you.

    • AmandaBee

      Congrats on the job possibility! That’s really awesome for you, and you should definitely go after what you want. The faculty market is so freaking hard to predict, fingers crossed that you both land somewhere solid.

      • Lisa

        Thank you! We’ve definitely talked about how uncertain his job prospects are, even though it’s what he really wants. We were already kind of leaning towards staying in Badtown to give him one more application cycle before picking up and moving somewhere else so this might work out the best for everyone. One of his friends just vacated a local adjunct job and plans to put my husband up for it so he could get more experience in the Badtown area, too. We definitely don’t want to be here long-term, but things are pointing to us potentially staying for a little while longer.

        • AmandaBee

          Yeah, the second job cycle was really common among my friend group and it’s nice that you’ll both be working toward building up the career you want so it won’t feel like just an “extra” year, if that makes any sense.

        • KC

          If he can keep publishing while adjuncting, that is ideal; apparently a lot of schools look askance if people have publishing/research gaps *or* haven’t had enough recent teaching experience (despite how difficult it is to do full-time adjuncting *and* research, even without the added job of job searching/applying; the market is nuts). Hope it goes well!

          • Lisa

            My husband’s academic field is a bit different (music performance) so the adjunct job would be part-time in addition to his private studio, performing, and coaching, but it’s not a bad idea to start working again on his back-up dissertation project! I’m planning to suggest to him that his summer project be creating a professional web-site and getting more business cards printed.

          • Good call on the professional website (and more cards) as a summer project to advance his career.

    • Katherine

      Congrats! It’s always nice to be thought of so highly.

    • K. is skittish about disqus

      Congrats on the job!

      Also drinking around the world at Epcot is SO much fun…and you can get SO drunk. At least, if you’re not careful like my 23-year-old self. ;)

  • scw

    happy happy hour, everyone! not much to add this week except… working from home in your pajamas really can’t be beat, until your new neighbor knocks on your door to introduce herself at nearly two pm and it looks like you just rolled out of bed. oh well, it’s friday!

  • Eh

    I am so very excited for this weekend because it means I survived the crazy busy months of April and May (and, so far, no big plans until the end of June, though I expect something will be planned or Fathers day). This week was also my last Brownie meeting of the year so that’s one less regular thing in our schedule for the next few months. If Sunday is nice, me and a friend are taking our daughters to a farm to see the animals. Other than that I need some relaxing time away from my in-laws. It’s been a trying two months spending half our weekends with them (and despite that, they complained last weekend that they wanted to see us more). Even one weekend that we didn’t spend with them (they were at a family member’s wedding and we were at a friend’s wedding) resulted to drama because people complained to my husband about his father’s behaviour (the worst story: he told a female family member, who is around my age, that she had nice legs, which made her uncomfortable, and then he posted a comment on FB that he was disappointed she didn’t dance with him). With these recent incidents, plus spending time with my family (while at my friend’s wedding), my husband is really starting to see how unrealistic his parents expectations are and how badly his father acts.

    • Ashlah

      Yikes. That’s the kind of thing I would, unfortunately, not be surprised to hear my father-in-law say, and it is so uncomfortable and gross. I’m not sure why people were complaining to your husband, though. It’s not like it’s his responsibility to control his father!

      • Eh

        His family loves to gossip so since my husband wasn’t at the wedding they decided to tell him. One cousin even said, “Your father is the ‘creepy uncle’ and will not be allowed near my children.”

        • Ashlah

          Oh dear.

        • CMT

          Wow, what a rude thing to say to somebody. It’s not like your husband can control his father’s behavior, so why make him feel bad about it?

          • Eh

            I agree. This is one of those things about his family that he finds normal that I don’t like. My husband plays into it though. He asked if his father had been drinking (I later reminded him that drinking is not an excuse), and when he saw the FB post said “another to add to my dad’s greatest hit”.

    • Lisa

      So glad to hear you’re out of the thick of it and can ignore the ILs for at least a little while!

  • lildutchgrrl

    I am excited about a new career development: moving from working with teens to working with younger children. My official start day is tomorrow, but I’ve been alternating between roles/locations for a couple of weeks during transition, so yesterday really brought out the differences. Four toddlers screamed and cried during storytime, and one threw up on the floor. With teenagers… well, I’m not going to say it would never happen, but usually it was only one crier at a time, and they’d use a trash can. I’m still not put off the transfer, though, which may mean I’m just ridiculously shiny-new. :)

    • Alyssa

      Enjoy! I work with 5-12 year olds. I recently saw a kindergartener do a serious spin move and projectile vomit mid-air. It was simultaneously the grossest and funniest/wtf thing that I cannot unsee.

      • Anna

        *Shudder* This is pretty much my greatest fear around having my own kids and also the reason why I have tremendous respect for the fortitude of those who choose to work with other people’s kids.

        • Ilora

          I once had a child throw up on me so spectacularly that his parents brought​ me chocolate the next day ?

          • Lisa

            I don’t have kids, but I thank you for your service. That is truly horrific.

        • rg223

          I’ve had every bodily fluid a small child can produce on me at one point or another. Thanks for the respect! :)

          • Anna

            This reminds me of a former acquaintance who was an EMT discussing rankings of bodily fluids from best to worst to get on you with his other EMT friends xD I’m pretty much calm about all other bodily fluids besides vomit, honestly, but that I really just cannot handle at all.

          • Ilora

            My coworker is the same re: vomit so our deal is that I do all vomit related clean ups and she does the rest of the exceptional messes. We work with 1-3 year olds so casual messes (read: blow outs) are just expected but the aftermath of diapers removed during nap time? Officially her problem haha!

          • Anna

            Heh, yeah, I’ve attempted to pre-negotiate a similar agreement with fiance for when we have kids, but he’s also iffy on vomit – not to the degree I am, but definitely not okay with it – so no dice there, it will officially be a shared responsibility :-/

          • Ilora

            My dad used to work nights and there were more than a few times that my brother and I cleaned up our own puke because my mom legitimately couldn’t do it without adding to the mess ??

  • savannnah

    We sent out our invitations! We are a little more than three months out but have lots of guests coming from opposite sides of the coasts and world and even though I got shammed WIC style from a bridesmaid who is having a much more traditional wedding/life for sending them out too early, idgaf. Also this moving to the west coast train is starting to look a lot more real. Now knowing more about this job, it is my partners dream job and I just don’t know if I can stand so much in his way on this. I never in a million years though that I would be a trailing spouse but I’m also finding that in a real life partnership, I’m finding some joy in helping him make this a reality. (Still super concerned with the West Coast being too Nice and not my people and my mid-west partner can’t relate) We are still early days but it looks more and more like the math will work. In other news I’m about to fly to DC to present on a bad ass project with my boss and because right now my mom and I work in the same field professionally we are sharing a hotel room for this conference til Wednesday and getting a couple’s facial at Aveda on Sunday.

    • theteenygirl

      We sent our invites out by email five months in advance instead of doing save the dates and made our RSVP deadline yesterday despite the wedding being Sept 25 because.. meh. You do it your way

    • Lisa

      At a little more than three months out, I think you’re fine. Plus, if you didn’t send STDs, this is giving those travellers extra notice.

      Congratulations on all of the other life stuff though! Enjoy the quality time with your mother. :)

    • Eve

      Are you from the east coast? Just to throw it out there for your consideration, one of my roommates/best friends from college is from NH and came to Portland for school, and I swear that she has east coast radar. She can spot those people, they can identify her as being from the east coast, so she’s been able to connect with a lot of east coast transplants. I think there are more of them on the west coast than we might think.

      • savannnah

        Yes- Vermont/New York originally and now in NYC, and yes I believe in east cost radar because, in preparing to marry a mid-westerner, I really feel like I’m in a cross cultural relationship and I’m sure it will be similar on the west coast.

        • Jenny

          I have found, in my limited sample, that the east coast and west coast are more similar than east coast and mid west. There are big differences to be sure, but at least in the niceness category, I found Seattle portland to be more similar to east coast in terms of niceness/directness than the midwest.

    • Her Lindsayship

      So funny – I’m going to a conference in DC next weekend and taking my mom with me! It was a super last minute decision to send me, which is a little annoying, but I’ve never been to DC so that’s exciting.

      Also I really don’t think 3 months out is too early for invites. That shade was unnecessary.

      • savannnah

        That’s awesome! I love DC! It has great history and tons of free museums and events. It is a literal swamp though so it will be humid af in June outside and freezing indoors. My suggestion is to wake up early and head to the Mall with your mom before it gets crowded and before it gets too hot. I always find a real sense of serenity at some of the national monuments – although I haven’t been back since the protest so maybe I’ll feel differently. At least my favorite dive bars, Ethiopian restaurants and coffee shops are still there. If you haven’t been to DC before please check out an Ethiopian restaurant . They are amazing and unique to DC in the US.

        • Anna

          Oh man yes, all the Ethiopian restaurants in Adams Morgan (? if I’m remembering correctly? it’s been a few years) are awesome. Not quite unique in the US (I’ve been to a phenomenal Ethiopian place in Berkeley and two or three in New York) but definitely a higher concentration and easier to find than just about anywhere else.

    • Yeah why does that tradition of only sending invites out a couple months beforehand exist? I suspect it comes from a time when everyone lived close by so there wasn’t as much of a need to book hotels and plane tickets but man, it just seems weird. There’s a huge golf tournament happening in my city the weekend of our wedding which has sucked up every hotel room in the city, so I felt it was paramount to send out invites 3 months ahead and also told everyone on the wedding website: Book your hotel in our block ASAP otherwise you will have trouble finding place. So, yeah, dumb traditions should be ignored.

      • zana

        Because people have a tendency to forget to RSVP if you send them too early. Email StDs + invitations 6-8 weeks out isn’t a bad one-two punch.

        • savannnah

          I’ve heard that this is reason why but is it true? My thought on it is that the type of person who doesnt know if if they are attending or who will procrastinate RSVPing won’t react differently if they get the invitations 3 months or 6 weeks in advance.

        • Not Sarah

          True but I’ve gotten a lot of not very official save the dates and then waited for an invite to book flights, which has cut it very close a few times!

    • Not Sarah

      Our wedding is in mid-September and we are planning to send out email invites in mid-June. We did save the dates, so this seems a reasonable time to do it. My MOH seemed weirded out by us sending save the dates like 10 months out, but she didn’t understand that travel is expensive to some people and our guest list is 2/3 out of country. We accidentally got our first RSVP on Sunday and it made me so excited I almost want to send out the invites early! We just want to have our registry ready first.

  • Em

    Any suggestions for how to stay focused, calm and “with it” mentally for short(ish), intense bursts of time? My grad school exams (only thing that decides if I pass or fail this entire degree!) start in two weeks tomorrow (and will be over within a week!), and I am getting a bit panicky about not having done enough and not potentially remembering enough in the exams (even though I feel like I’ve been working really hard for months now). My husband has also just started a short course learning how to teach English as a foreign language, which he’s enjoying but is really intense so far – so at least I’ve had a late night study buddy which has been nice.

    Any tips as to how to stay reasonably sane in the next little while would be much appreciated. I’m trying to keep myself focused by thinking at least a little bit about the nice things we have planned for after exams (a month of holidays – so insanely decadent) and that’s helping a bit. But my sleep cycle is a bit all over the place and I am alternating between stress eating ALL THE THINGS and then not eating much because I’m too stressed.

    • C.

      To-do lists/schedules! Check tasks/topics off as you complete them.

    • Amy March

      Routines! Eat the same thing every day, go to bed at the same time, watch an episode of the same show to calm down, every morning speak the same mantra to yourself out loud, designate one necklace your “soothing jewelry” and wear it daily. Make everything habitual so you aren’t making 47 decisions a day and so the morning of the exam, you know exactly what you are doing.

    • Yael

      No suggestions since Amy March’s and C’s are good, but best of luck!

    • Alyssa

      My joking response is adderall, but please don’t. Listen to C and Amy!

    • scw

      breathing exercises and lots of tv down time got me through the weeks before my dissertation defense. exams are probably a bit different as you’ll want to spend some time studying, but remember you’ve probably already done the hardest work! best of luck!

    • Katherine

      Recognize when you are burnt out or over-panicked, stop, and take a fifteen minute break. Preferably a small walk if you are able to do so since it helps rest your eyes. Doing laps around the hallways of my apartment complex got me through the bar exam last summer.

    • Jess

      for studying in shortish intense bursts:

      1) I listen to movie soundtracks. I put together playlists on Google play for a set time, but you could use anything. The dramatic but wordless music helps me be real intensely focused and get some motivation.

      2) I also used to schedule dance breaks. When my playlist ended (usually like every 45min) I would put on something really up beat and literally dance around like an idiot. Get the blood flowing, feel happy.

      3) DRINK WATER.

      • penguin

        1) Also video game soundtracks!

    • Essssss

      The pomodoro method has revolutionized my intense focus work. You can get an app on your phone.

      • Em

        I have been pomodoro-ing like crazy the last few months – I enjoy counting up my chunks of time! It’s very satisfying (and yes, v helpful re focus) :)

    • How did your exams go?

  • penguin

    Crowd-sourcing suggestions for things!

    -Where to get nice tailored suit for a (plus sized? heavy set? what do guys say for this?) man for wedding, Boston area/Eastern Mass. Looking to buy not rent so he has a nice suit for things like interviews/funerals. Fiancé doesn’t know where to start looking, so I figured I’d ask around.

    -Tips for registering. We’re thinking Crate & Barrel, maybe BBB. Also going to walk around Sur la Table and Williams & Sonoma. We have a list of ideas of things we might want, but haven’t registered anywhere yet. What did you register for that you still love? What do you regret registering for? We’ve lived together for a few years and love to bake/cook/host people and entertain, and a lot of our things are still college leftovers.

    -How to find hair/makeup person for bride for wedding. I usually don’t wear makeup and I suck at doing my hair, so I plan on hiring somebody for both but don’t know where to start looking. Yelp? Wedding Wire? Other?

    • Amy March

      For hair and makeup- instagram. Follow your photographer and your venue, and then when they post pictures stalk those pictures. You can often find a credit for hair and makeup lurking in a tag somewhere, and those are people who you know are near by.

      • BSM

        Yup. Found my hair and makeup on there!

        • penguin

          Awesome, I wouldn’t have thought of instagram! So far I’ve only used it to look at cat pictures, tattoos, and follow Dwayne The Rock Johnson lol. I’ll start looking for hair/makeup people on there!

          • Angela’s Back

            This is my instagram with the addition of drag queens and it’s awesome :D

      • jem

        Yesss this is how I found my ladies. Also good for figuring out what you want

      • LazyMountain

        Oh yeah ditto on the photographer thing- you actually could ask yours as well. That’s how we found ours- she’s a freelance gal who doesn’t have a website and would have been difficult to locate otherwise. You can also find blog posts of weddings in your area and scour their vendor listings too.

    • theteenygirl

      Not super helpful, but we are spending $1500 (CAD) to get fiance a bespoke suit (fancy way of saying custom made) because he is a weird shape and we want him to have something he can wear for years and years. You can get simple bespoke done for around $900-1000 (CAD) here and it would probably be a much nicer experience than going to a store where nothing fits. So just google “bespoke tailor boston” and see what comes up?

    • Eh

      #2 – I love to cook so we updates stuff – I love my Le Creuset pots and French oven and use them a lot. I love the serving dishes we got and use them a couple times a year. We also got a duvet that we use all winter – it’s the second most used thing. The most used thing was a hand maid quilt (that my step-grandmother made us).

      #3 – I asked around. We got married in my husband’s hometown so I asked his cousins who lived there who they would recommend for makeup (my sister is a hair stylist and did my hair).

    • Yael

      I think Jos. A. Banks has some good options for suits, although I don’t know if they tailor in house. I know that Brooks Brothers does – that’s where the men in my family go, and while none are heavy set, they definitely have different body types.

      ETA: not registered, but I tend to buy kitchen/house stuff at C&B and CB2 and LOVE it. So much so that I’m considering shipping it to Europe. Ikea also has some really nice stuff, and I think they have registries now!

    • emmers

      We upgraded a lot of our stuff, like we had mismatched plates, and silverware, and it was great to get matching glasses. I don’t really regret registering for anything, except maybe our crock pot. It’s huge, and I really don’t use it- I don’t think I’m ever going to be a set-it-and-forget it person. A small one for dips would have been better. Another registry fave was silicone spatulas — super cheap, and we use them every single day!

      • BSM

        Yeah, I don’t love my crockpot as much as I thought I would. I’m thinking about trading it in for an Instant Pot, since that’s a slow cooker plus like 6 other things…

        • penguin

          I highly recommend the Instant Pot – I have two! So useful for so many things. We’ve used ours for slow cooking mulled cider, pressure cooking apple peels to cook them down for applesauce (blend before adding), pressure cooker cheesecake, and a bunch of meat/rice dishes. Amazon runs good sales on Instant Pots every once in a while, and that’s when I snagged my first one. It doesn’t come with good instructions or recipes, so I recommend checking out pressure cooking blogs.

    • Lisa

      2. I love all of the cookware/dishware we registered for. Other hit items were a paper shredder, tools (even an electric screwdriver is useful for an apartment), and a fireproof safe. If I could go back, I would have registered for more outdoor things/camping gear. I loved our Amazon registry because we could assign priority levels to them and include one-off items from other stores. We also used C&B and Anthropologie (though only my sister shopped from the latter). People like to go to the big box stores and buy the presents in person.

      3. I found mine on Thumbtack, and she was fantastic. Basically you post the job you have, and then contractors respond with quotes. That way all of the potential prospects came to me, and I only had to look for examples/reviews of the people who were already available and wanted the job.

      • Eh

        I really want a paper shredder and a fireproof safe!

        • Lisa

          Our safe is theoretically not so safe because we didn’t want to bolt it to the floor of our rental, but I like having somewhere secure to store our important documents! The paper shredder we ended up buying with BBB gift cards, and it was one of my favorite things. We get so much use out of it.

      • AmandaBee

        +1 to Thumbtack. I started there, although when the MUA I wanted was unavailable, she ended up recommending the person I actually went with. But it’s nice because you can narrow it based on your price and date, and then shop through the people who reach out to you.

      • penguin

        Do you have a paper shredder recommendation? Our last one could barely handle two sheets at a time, so for our next one I’m looking for something that could shred a child’s bicycle lol.

        • Lisa

          I *think* it’s an older version of this one. (The style of it looks similar, and the price point is about the same.)

      • The fireproof safe is a great registry idea!

    • Alyssa

      Registering: Zola, Zola, Zola. You can add stuff from anywhere — although I think it all comes in the form of cash to you (which you may or may not want), but I found it so easy to use!

      • Lisa

        Yes. Love Zola.

      • Megan

        It doesn’t necessarily come in the form of cash. We sent people to the external site to have them purchase it there. One of the best parts of Zola is it will give your guest your shipping address when they send them to external sites so they don’t have to automatically know your address.

        • Alyssa

          Ahhh thank you for the clarification! We used our Zola account exclusively for money funds, but I did see on there how you can ship actual items.

          • zana

            It’s the same thing. Zola can give you cash or Zola credit (which can be converted into cash) for the 3% credit card fee. Plus, if you hold off on ordering most of the Zola items until after the wedding, you get to use the completion discount.

    • BSM

      My absolute favorite thing that we got from our registry are our everyday dishes from C&B. We had an IKEA set before, which was fine, but these are sooo beautiful, and we got 12 place settings so now we have all the dishes, which is amazing. We got the Hue collection in white: https://www.crateandbarrel.com/hue-white-dinner-plate/s672523

      Other stuff that I really enjoyed receiving were serving dishes/platters and nice table linens. We didn’t have many of either of these, and it’s nice to pull them out when we’re having people over and remember they were wedding gifts. We have these from C&B, and they’re so heavy and gorgeous: https://www.crateandbarrel.com/iona-5-piece-flatware-place-setting/s234900

      We also registered for new flatware (I think we had 3 knives before we got married), which no one ended up getting us, but we treated ourselves to it anyways. Same thing with a new set of pots and pans, although 2 years later, we still haven’t actually pulled the trigger! After the kitchen reno, maybe.

      • lamarsh

        We have the hue collection in a variety of colors and I love it so much. Plus the low bowls are my favorite thing in my kitchen. I’m not sure how I served anything pre-low bowls.

        • BSM

          I loooove them. We actually didn’t get the low bowls, but now you have me re-considering!

          • lamarsh

            Fiance was very unsure when I registered for them (he did not think we needed two kinds of bowls), but he loves them now. Definitely worth considering!

          • BSM

            Hmmm, yeah. We are about to have a brand new kitchen with lots more storage, so maybe now is the time! We need to replace a couple plates that have chips, anyways…

            Although we’ll also have no money once it’s done, so there’s that lol

      • penguin

        Ooh I love getting recommendations on dishes! For the ones you have – do they microwave OK? (Our current dishes get SO HOT in the microwave, like even if the food is still cold somehow). Does food get caught in those plate grooves or are those not that deep? Are the dishes durable? The durable thing is important for us – we break a lot of cereal bowls somehow, and almost every one of our plates has a chip or two out of it.

        • BSM

          Omg, I love these dishes. To answer your questions:

          -They microwave great. They of course get warm when you put them in there, but it’s nothing like what you describe with your current dishes. They’re also fine in the oven… My husband likes to warm up our plates in there at a low temp before putting hot food on them so everything stays warm longer, and they hold up well even doing that.
          -The grooves aren’t deep at all, so food doesn’t get stuck.
          -They are super durable. I think we’ve chipped 1 or 2 pieces out of 36 (we have the dinner plates, salad plates, and deep bowls) in the last 2 years, and we’ve moved 3 times, and our last 3 places didn’t have dishwashers, so I think they’ve had a bit more wear and tear than your average usage.

          • penguin

            You’re the best! Also we went to Crate & Barrel yesterday, and we registered for those dishes!!

          • BSM

            I’m so excited for you!!! Since we love our dishes so much, we always try to buy them for other people when we see them on their registries!

    • Katharine Parker

      Have you thought about Indochino for the suit? They’re made-to-measure, so it might be a good option for him.

      For registering, we did Williams-Sonoma and I love it. They carry all the brands I like–All-Clad, Breville, Kitchenaid, Le Creuset, Miele. I personally don’t like Sur la Table quite as much, for reasons that I can’t quite articulate, but they have a lot of overlap in stock. BB&B has tons of stuff, too, but to a point that it feels overwhelming and I’m glad not to have had to deal with that. We did all our dishes and glassware through someone smaller, though, and it is amazing and they’re all incredibly beautiful. I personally have had bad experiences buying items off an Amazon registry and the gift note not being included, so I am biased against them. I think people like buying stuff in person and people like places that have sales–so having at least one national chain is helpful.

      My advice would be to think about the things you really want that are harder to find–I had specific cutlery that is only at WS, so that made it easy. And pay attention to their registry conditions–you want a good return policy, for example, and a completion discount is nice.

      • jem

        Ooooh yes we are also thinking abt indochino for fiance’s suit for the wedding– they have a store on Newbury St where he can get fitted

      • zana

        Don’t pay full price for Indochino. They’re always having a coupon code or sale out there. You just gotta look for it.

    • Alex K

      My husband got his suit from 9Tailors. It was expensive but it fits him really well (his 6’5″ and 275 so not easy to fit).

    • Arie

      We used suit supply for my husband’s suit and had a wonderful experience. It looks like the Boston store isn’t opening yet, but there’s some other NE stores if you’re interested. He only had to go twice – once to get measured, and once to pick up the suit and make sure it fit. He did the custom suit and it fit beautifully – it wasn’t cheap but he’s already worn it twice since the wedding and hopefully can wear it for years to come.

      I wish I had registered for the fireproof safe! We bought one after the wedding.

    • jem

      We’re in Boston! I really recommend the Jos A Banks @ Burlington Mall. Sean there helped my fiancé get two work suits a couple weeks ago– they had a crazy sale so each was like $248. Fiancé is hard to buy suits for because he’s a stick man (super super tall and narrow) and they always have his size.

      Alsoooo I’m using Liz Kidder for hair, Kira Bourque for makeup. I haven’t done my trials yet but they are super nice so far…

      • penguin

        Legendary, thank you so much!! Going to check them out :)

    • norah_charles_ftw

      Strongly recommend Nordstroms for the suit. Their tailoring is in house and with massive size and style range in their suit selection plus a custom made suit option, we’ve been really happy. Husband is a “big dude” and now will only buy suits from there since he’s had such good experiences.

    • RNLindsay

      My husband wears suits to work and just got a couple custom made ones through Indochino. They have a fitting room on Newbury St in Boston – you go and get your measurements, pick your style, then the suit gets mailed to you. He said they were each about $400 which really isn’t bad at all for a custom made suit. He says it’s about the price he was normally paying for suits but then would have to spend extra $$ to get them tailored.

      • Her Lindsayship

        Was just coming here to recommend Indochino. :) (hi fellow Lindsay!) Pretty sure my fiancé is getting his suit through them, and while he’s not plus size, he is extremely picky about his purchases, so I guess they must be pretty decent.

      • jem

        Question! How long does it take for them to make their suits? We are getting married in less than 3 months and let’s just say what dude is wearing is a MYSTERY. He’s leaning towards indochino but I’m panicking that he doesn’t have time to get something from-scratch

        • RNLindsay

          3-4 weeks! So definitely doable if he gets an appt soon!

          • jem

            Thanks!

      • Lisa

        Just chiming in that my partner also used Indochino. The first suit and shirts they sent were a bit short in the sleeves, so he sent them back and they remade them to fit him perfectly. So for us the process probably took 6 – 8 weeks because of the return.

      • Fushigidane

        Word of caution, my brother ordered a suit from Indochino. When he got it, it didn’t look anything like what a suit was supposed to look like. The proportions were very wrong and puckered weirdly but all the lengths were right so it wasn’t like he gave them the wrong measurements. Luckily he was able to go to a showroom. They made a whole new suit and now it looks fabulous. So it’s a risk if you’re not near a showroom.

        • RNLindsay

          Sounds like penguin lives in the Boston area so she should be all set with the show room on Newbury St. They can do any alterations there!

    • AmandaBee

      Registry: Focus on stuff you need for the things you love to do. We also like cooking/baking/hosting so 90% of our registry was related to that. We upgraded our pots, pans, baking sheets, knives, flatware, etc. and also got a toaster oven, coffee maker, some other small appliances. Kitchen stuff is nice because there are a mix of fancy options (super nice pans and knives!), mid-price (flatware, small appliances), and cheap stuff (mixing bowls, spatulas) that people can pick from and you’ll use most of it regularly if you like to cook and host.

      Then we threw in some random stuff – beach towels and a camping tent for travel. We also registered for some board games for hosting people. A vacuum, because ours was super old. We skipped any furniture or knick-knacks (nice picture frames, etc.) because our tastes change too fast for that.

      Really, we love everything we registered for. If you’ve got a lot of college leftovers, now may be a good time to upgrade that to good-quality basics, and also throw in some small fun things that people might like to get you based on stuff you like to do.

      ETA: We did Target and Macy’s because those were accessible to our guests. We looked at other options but they didn’t seem worth it when 80% of our guests didn’t live near, say, a Crate & Barrel and many of them would want to shop in person. Know your people.

    • LazyMountain

      We did one of the C&B registry events and it was seriously lovely. We then proceeded to plunk all of those things into an Amazon universal registry and add items from non-kitchen-obsessed categories (because we are also those people). We also switched out some of the generic versions of things that we had registered for at C&B for ones that got amazing reviews and/or were cheaper on Amazon (e.g. a garlic press that is actually cleanable). We have just started to receive gifts and it’s working really well! I am especially excited for the bocce ball set and Ateco cake stand…

      • zana

        We did something similar. C&B for the die-hards that want a walk-in store and Zola because it allowed us to determine when to send the gifts (i.e., we lived 2k miles from our wedding, and didn’t want shipped gifts arriving while we were away). Zola is similar to Amazon in many of its features, but with a prettier interface and more higher-end curation.

        • LazyMountain

          Also sounds like a great plan! We looked at Zola but I couldn’t sell the fiance on it- she is an Amazon die-hard. It’s been very fun seeing things get gifted and knowing when you’ll have them! Also my work spouse just got us a FoodSaver with the note “Remember to savor the good times and keep things fresh” and I just giggled to myself helplessly in my office.

    • sage

      For hair, I asked my hairdresser if someone on his staff could do a simple updo for me or if he had any outside recommendations

      For makeup (which I also rarely wear), I am planning to do it myself for the wedding after going to a couple tutorials at a sephora and practicing on my own time

    • We registered at C&B – it was our first experience with them and we’re now HUGE fans of C&B! Their registry is so awesome, and they have parties! Even if you don’t do a party, they make it really easy to get your registry setup and to maintain it, and they take back stuff way after your wedding, like a year after.

    • Hannah

      Fellow Boston-area bride here! Hair – Sarah Miller at Twilight Salon – amazing and very reasonable!!! Cannot recommend her highly enough. I’m having Stacey Frasca do my makeup, but she is a bit more expensive (it was a panic booking).

    • CP2011

      I’m not sure if they have it on the east coast but my husband (plus-size) has a lot of luck with slacks and suits from Haggar. Their pants typically come with hidden elastic in the waist and they have a ton of size combinations for suit separates. We shop at the outlet store.

  • Suzy

    I found my dress this week!
    Completely different to what I thought I wanted, but she asked me to pick a ‘wildcard’ option, and… that was it! I didn’t expect to be particularly emotional but when I tried it on it was the first time it felt real that this time next year I’ll be a wife. A few tears may have been shed! I can’t wait to wear it for real :D

    • Alyssa

      Yay! My dress surprised me too, but when you know, you know!

      • Lisa

        Same here. The dress I ended up loving was the one odd-ball ballgown among all of the lace sheaths/A-lines I thought I’d wanted.

        • Alyssa

          Right?! I was sure I’d go for all-lace, but once I got the tulle on, that was it!

        • Lisa

          That’s so funny, because I love my grandmother’s wedding dress which is ballgown style. She no longer has it, so I went dress shopping and ended up with a lace mermaid style dress. You just never know.

        • Suzy

          Yep that was it- the one ballgown with no lace or beading whatsoever. It was the simplicity that suited me!

    • sofar

      Congrats!

      The dress I ended up getting was a wildcard option too (I had to pick 10 dresses in advance for my fitting at BHLDN, had 9 selected, and figured, “Meh, what the heck let’s try this one, too” and it ended up being the dress). The dress that I thought was The One online was AWFUL in person, meanwhile.

      • Ilora

        Same here! And I didn’t even have to/get to try it on to realize since the boutique I was at only had it available in a bridal size 6 at that time….i may or may not have gotten stuck halfway into it…

  • Alyssa

    We are T-minus-1.5 weeks until we fly out to France/aka our wedding. There is SO much going on, I feel like I can’t even think straight! I won’t go too much into everything, but the vibe of our day is (hopefully) as about as relaxed as one could possibly go for while still doing a wedding ceremony. I’m grateful that our friends grasp this and can help make it happen, as my mom seems to be panicking more and more as we get closer — and lucky me, I’m always the one she takes her stress out on. Big shout out to the fiance for taking initiative and putting his foot down with my parents, because one of us has to while the other one is being guilted into submission!

    I was hit with a stomach virus this week that the week prior put my fiance in the ER. We learned a lot from his bout with it (crush dramamine + tylenol in water and swish it around and spit out — gross? Most definitely. Worked? Like a charm.) and luckily I only had to take 2 days off of work to recover — but still. Could be worse timing (at least it’s not while we’re in France?), but — I mean, is it EVER good timing to get a stomach virus? Living off of toast and congee this week.

    How are all the summer brides doing? One of my best friends is getting married in August and we agreed to lean on each other this summer for reality checks/venting sessions as we are both losing our marbles through the process!

    • savannnah

      That’s so exciting! Sorry to hear about your stomach bug but definitely could be worse timing! I also have a wedding buddy, someone who is getting married a month after us and its been amazing to vent with her and also chat about the inane shit no one else wants to hear me discuss. Yesterday we talked about how expensive wedding kippah’s are for an hour and it was great/we’ve become monsters.

      • Lisa

        I wish I were part of that conversation. It sounds like just the kind of awesome friend-talk I need. Missing my Jewish girlfriends in ATL now that I’ve moved out of state.

    • Anna

      I feel like I’ve been going through cycles of alternating utter zen with complete panic, with the cycle length getting shorter and shorter as we approach our (June 17) wedding. We’re the first of our group of friends to get married, so I don’t have real-life friends in the same boat to lean on. My coworkers (all 10-30 years old than me, all married, all dudes) have actually been surprisingly helpful with like “oh, I remember this part was insane when we got married” anecdotes.

      • Alyssa

        I swear, sometimes guys are the voice of reason in this craziness! No drama, just tell it like it is.

    • Lisa

      Our wedding is 3 weeks out, and major things are happening every day. I’m just trying not to miss any of the little details. And I don’t understand how and why every little thing has to go through me. I was complaining to my partner yesterday because both mothers are texting me everyday randomly throughout the day while I’m trying to work on my prospectus. I basically have the option of being pulled out of my workflow constantly or silencing my phone for the day and risking the ire of the matriarchs who are at the store, or wherever, and need answers that minute. We’ve been trying to re-train them for months (at least to include fiance in the conversation), and it hasn’t really stuck.

      • Alyssa

        YES, SAME. My mom texts me throughout the day with frequent and urgent wedding-related needs. Meanwhile I’m trying to finish out my job for the school year, study for an exam for my license, etc. And — AND — my fiance lives with them for the time being and sees her on a daily basis. Why she can’t just ask him, I have no idea.

  • Amy March

    Shout out to a darling colleague who took me to lunch today to thank me for listening to her talk about her wedding for a year. Completely unnecessary and so thoughtful!

    • Lisa

      What a lovely gesture! I love hearing stories like this.

    • Vanessa

      This is great. I have a coworker who I am very close friends with who is listening to me talk about it all the time, and I was thinking of buying her a gift (her favorite thing, an ice cream cake), but I wasn’t sure if it would be weird. Now I think I’m going to do it!

      • Sarah

        One co-worker planned my workplace bridal shower and another made my jewelry (with the beads, etc I bought). I took them both to lunch at our favorite, cheap Mexican place after the wedding. It was a nice time :)

      • AmandaBee

        FWIW, I didn’t have a bridal party but I bought gifts for all of my friends who listened/volunteered/supported me throughout the wedding because I figured they were doing the work anyway. I don’t think appreciation is ever weird!

  • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

    Sad post today.About a month ago I posted in a Friday Open Thread about a weird and sad situation where my FSMIL (future stepmother in law), who is an alcoholic, was in the hospital and we got all the information third hand from a one of her neighbors who went to school a decade ago with my FBIL because her primary contact was her brother who lives out of state. She passed away on Wednesday. We got the information this time through her brother, who called her husband (my fiancé’s dad), and then it trickled through the family via phone tree. It was at the same time a shock, and also not at all surprising, in the way that you can watch a train coming from a mile away, but there’s no way to really prepare for it to hit you.It shouldn’t have surprised me how much a weird and sad and complicated situation in life becomes a situation that is just as weird and sad and complicated in death. Everyone in the family had taken about 10 big steps back from her, because at some point there was nothing more they could do for her, and loving an addict can be a painful situation that results in a lot of damaged relationships. Her husband wasn’t sure if he was supposed to go claim her body (we’re told she wanted it donated to science), and he couldn’t get any information from the hospital, because her contact was her brother, so we still don’t know quite what happened to her, aside from the obvious. Nobody knows who is responsible for planning any kind of service, or publishing an obit. She was a sweet person, and a lot of people knew and loved her, so a lot of people are in shock and looking for answers about what happened to her. She seems to have done a good job of hiding her problem from the world, so other than her family, nobody saw this coming, and I don’t know how to talk about her death in a way that both protects her privacy on that front, but doesn’t feel like half the truth, so mostly I’ve said nothing to people who didn’t know her.What’s really frustrating is that there’s nothing to do. My FSIL will be in town visiting next week, and will likely be helping my FFIL clean out the house, which from what I understand is in pretty bad shape. I reached out to her to let her know I want to help with that effort, and I’m really hoping they include me in the process. It also feels really stupidly significant that I’m PADude’s fiancé, as opposed to his wife, because I can’t exactly say that she was a member of my family, when she sure as hell felt like one.

    • scw

      oh man, lots of love to you and yours.

    • Lisa

      I’m so sorry for the pain your family is going through. Even if they’re not legally yours yet, it’s still possible to feel like they are and claim them as family. Sending you all love and light during this difficult time.

    • Kate

      I am so sorry. I had an uncle pass from liver disease (due to alcoholism) and the situation has a lot of similarities to yours. People who felt entitled to information were bombarding my grieving grandparents with phone calls. I think you can be straight forward with people or you can bluff a little by saying something “She passed away unexpectedly from an intense illness.” Because it was an intense illness and you are never expecting something to happen exactly when it does. Then when they try to pry, “Sorry, but this is painful for us to discuss. Please understand that our family needs time and privacy to grieve.”

      • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

        Thanks for that wording. I have a feeling it’ll come in handy.

    • Abby

      Big hugs. No good advice except to take care of yourself. And as a specific point on that, while I hope they do include you in the process for cleaning out the house/helping in any way you can, I hope that if they don’t, you can find a way to live with that and realize it’s about how they’re processing their grief and not anything to do with you. People process death in a million different ways. I hope you can remember that this is your family, no matter your current title/role. They’re lucky to have you joining the fold and helping to bear the weight of this loss.

      • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

        *nod*Thank you.

    • sofar

      I’m so sorry for your family’s loss.

      I had a cousin die from a drug overdose — and NOBODY had known he had a problem. And the hardest part was trying to figure out what to tell people (he was loved by many). 22-year-olds don’t just keel over dead in their apartments, so obviously, everyone wanted to know “what happened.” His parents eventually asked us all to keep his cause of death on the down-low, but what do you say when someone point-blank asks you “What happened?”

      I usually went with, “We’re still trying to figure it all out. We’re all very shocked.” I made the mistake of telling someone that it was a drug overdose, and her reaction was to say, “Well how did his parents NOT KNOW??? They could have prevented this!” So … yeah… telling people nothing was obviously for the better.

      It’s so good of you to step in and offer help. And you being not quite a wife yet makes no difference. You are family.

      • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

        Ugh, people can be awful. It’s hard to see people posting to each other all over her Facebook page, about how they don’t know anything yet and will share when they find out more. Someone said they were headed to her house the next day to find out. Um, what? Nobody currently lives there, so I know you didn’t clear that with her family. Nosey jerks.

        • sofar

          The worst is that I suspect, for a lot of people, it’s morbid curiosity. If the family hasn’t reached out, you are not in the position to know anything, people! Cook a damn casserole for the deceased’s close family and stop trying to inflate your importance by announcing little reconnaissance missions on Facebook.

          • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

            Exactly! It reminds me of a local house fire about a year ago. One of the local news sites posted about it on their Facebook page, stating the number of alarms, that kinda thing. In the comments people were saying that it was on narrow streets and they were having a hard time getting the fire trucks past the parked cars. Some other dingus asked if anybody had the exact address, because he was headed over there. WHY? WHY ARE YOU GOING THERE. Stop gawking at other people’s pain. It’s not meant to be entertainment.

        • Kate

          Suuuuuch jerks.

      • zana

        uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

    • Laura C

      So much sympathy. And on the final point, about feeling like she was a member of your family, people who aren’t close to you don’t need to hear all the asterisks. There’s been a death in your family. That’s all people need to know.

      • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

        You’re right. Thank you.

    • rg223

      I’m so sorry. Hugs to you and your family.

    • Katherine

      I’m so sorry for your loss. Losing a family member is never easy, but this is a particularly complicated situation. Sending you strength.

    • Lisa

      Sending love, and echoing everyone here who is sorry for your loss. It’s good that you reached out and offered help; you’re definitely family.

    • Jess

      I’m so sorry for your and your fiance and your family’s loss. I’m glad that you were able to reach out and offer help during this time of messy emotions. You are definitely family.

  • Kate

    APW, I need your help to fight neo-Nazis. “Proud Boys” are holding a “free speech rally” in my town tomorrow. They have a history of violently attacking counter protestors so instead I would like to set up something online where people pledge to donate to SPLC or Emily’s List for every hour the rally goes on. How do I do this?

    • Cleo

      Are you looking for a way to set up online donations on a site that stays up for the duration of the rally or donations that progressively increase as more time passes (like how people pledge $$ per hour someone dances in a dance-a-thon)?

  • MayJune

    We got married last weekend! It wasn’t the Best! Day! Ever! but it was an incredibly awesome day and I’m SO happy to be on the non-planning married side of it.

    I had always planned to drop my middle name and add my husband’s name to mine to be FIRST MYLAST HISLAST, but as I got closer to the wedding it just didn’t feel right. I still haven’t made a final decision about what I’ll do with my name, but I’m pretty set on keeping it as is. That being said, being married somehow feels less “real” without having a new last name. My sister got married two months ago and has fully embraced being Mrs. Hislast, while I’m just the same old me. We already lived together before we got married, and nothing has really changed other than our new rings. Is this just something that will sink in with time? Anyone have experience with/thoughts on this?

    • scw

      congratulations! I didn’t change my name, either, and I remember feeling like nothing had changed in the weeks after the wedding (except, of course, I had all this great wedding cake in the fridge and no big event I needed to look good for haha). in my case, it definitely sunk in with time. we’re two years in and I really feel like getting married changed a ton in our relationship/relationship with others/everything.

    • Abby

      It will definitely sink in over time. Every time you remember you get to say “husband” instead of “fiance”, every truly long-term decision you make together, even (especially?) the fights and the health problems, will deepen it into what makes a marriage a marriage.

    • Abby

      And, congrats! (and, ps, I didn’t deal with my name change until a solid year after we got married, so you have plenty of time to decide what feels right to you on that front)

    • MC

      I got married & didn’t change my name, and had lived with my partner for about 18 months before the wedding – for me, there was not a moment where I felt “married,” but I do feel more married now than I did the day after we got married – so I guess it was gradual? I actually wasn’t expecting to feel any different since none of the logistics of our relationship were changing. But I do think it has given us a deeper foundation with which to talk about & improve our relationship. I also think our friends and our family consider us more of a “unit” than before (which annoys me but does have its benefits) and his family especially was really excited to welcome me into their family even more so once we were married.

    • Rose

      We were similar to you–had lived together for years, neither of us changed our names. I didn’t feel all that different after the wedding, which was fine with me. I I think a lot of it happened very gradually, particularly in the moments when I started to think of us really clearly as a primary unit. I think you’ll feel married even if you decide you don’t want to change.

    • AP

      I didn’t change my name, either. For me, the real ‘married team’ feelings came when we officially combined our finances (right after we got married) and sat down together to start planning our future- where we see ourselves in 5 and 10 years, saving for retirement, places we want to travel. We actually made a list together. And referring to each other as husband and wife really makes it sink in too:) I think feeling like not much has changed after the wedding, whether you change your name or not, is pretty common. I’d give it some time!

    • laddibugg

      I want to do first, maiden, last, but my state makes that a total pain. You have to do TWO separate name changes and I feel like I’ll barely have the energy to do one.

    • Katherine

      We both changed our names personally, but for professional licensing reasons (name change would have slowed so much down), I kept my last in the professional context. For example, we’re “Mylast-Hislast” on Facebook, but I’m still “Mylast” at work.

    • Rebekah

      My good friend did what you planned, became Rachel HerLastAsMiddle Hislast and is very happy with it. I went from Rebekah Middle Mylast Rebekah Middle Mylastassecondmiddle Hislast and . . . I’ve never been truly happy with it. 3 years later I’m toying with going back, loving our open threads about baby names and how it gets me thinking, etc.
      Best of luck!

  • Alli

    Had some bridal party weirdness this week! I found out my bachelorette was extremely expensive and a good chunk of my friends couldn’t afford to go, and the ones who could were pretty annoyed at the price. It turned out my maid of honor wasn’t taking input from anyone or telling anyone anything, just saying “It’ll cost this much for the room.” I felt like a bitch (and a little bridezilla-y, to whip out another b-word), but I told her to change it to a one night thing instead of a full weekend, and that we don’t need matching shirts and whatnot. She got overwhelmed and shut down so I ended up taking it over for a bit, reached out to people to figure out who needed a room, and booked us some cheaper rooms in the same hotel so it would be like two fifths of the original price. I backed off after that to let her plan, but I was so wiped out from dealing with it.

    During all of this I was constantly assuring her she’s not a failure and that it’ll be okay, but I’m just so confused! I’m a really low key person, and she was planning what seemed like a bachelorette party you’d see on tv. One of my other bridesmaids is my cousin and she even said “It’s like she’s planning this party for something that isn’t you.” I’m trying to get her to rely on the other bridesmaids for support but I don’t know if she is and I don’t want her to think I’m babysitting her on the whole thing. It’s coming up soon and I know it’ll be fun no matter what, so I’m just trying to step back and let it happen.

    • sofar

      Wow. It sucks because your MoH was probably trying to make you happy in her own, odd way. Is she just kind of clueless about the value of money in general? Is this her first bachelorette rodeo?

      Even for the very first bachelorette party I planned, the FIRST thing I did was discuss budget with the other bridesmaids and important attendees. I’m glad you jumped in and made things right, even though that had to be so stressful!

      • Alli

        Yeah, I’m the first of my friends to get married. I’m pretty sure her line of thinking was “Let’s make this the best bachelorette ever!” and got sort of lost along the way? I know she’s stressed out about other things so I really just think she got so overwhelmed that she was just making decisions without consulting people and it backfired.

    • Laura C

      I feel like that’s a thing that happens — I went to a bachelorette party that had that same characteristic, like it was planned for a generic bride rather than my friend, and during the party I had conversations with both the bride and the person who planned it where they were like “this is really not my scene, but…” Obviously when I heard that from the person who planned it I was thinking “so why did you plan it this way?” But I know she was just trying to do the right thing.

    • Anna

      I’m dealing with a much lower-key and less problematic version of this problem, but definitely very much the “it’s like she’s planning this party for someone who isn’t you” thing. Two of my three bridesmaids (not including my underage sister) are planning my bachelorette, and one of them in particular is VERY VERY into extremely elaborate surprises – e.g., she lives an hour away from her mom and for Mother’s Day she not only secretly took time off work to come out to her mom’s place, she also arranged a weekend away in Maine for the two of them and her mom’s boyfriend, called her mom’s employer to secretly get her mom the weekend off as well, photoshopped a fake work schedule for the boyfriend so her mom would think he was working that weekend, and arranged for other family members to pick her up at the train station so she could be sitting at her mom’s kitchen table when her mom got home on Friday. Her mom LOVED it and she got an enormous kick out of planning this, so clearly this kind of surprise is a big thing for her and an understood way of showing affection in her family.

      I, on the other hand, am more of a anticipation-is-half-the-fun kind of person. I’m not into surprise parties. I don’t need to know every detail of my life in advance (in fact, fiance gets antsy about e.g. how lax I am about planning travel in advance) but I like to know what kinds of things I’ll be doing when (for example, if I found out that Bridesmaid had called my work to get me time off so we could do something non-work-like without telling me, I would FLIP A SHIT). But the bachelorette party I’m getting is very much tailored to Bridesmaid’s elaborate-surprise philosophy of showing affection. I totally get that pouring effort into a huge elaborate surprise is her ultimate way of showing she cares about me, and I appreciate that tremendously, and she’s been trying to accommodate my anxiety around not knowing anything by feeding me details periodically. But I feel a little like… she knows me well enough to know that this is overall just not my jam, and yet it doesn’t seem to have occurred to her to plan an event that would be designed around my preferred means of celebration.

      [What I know so far about this bachelorette party – which is two weeks from yesterday, oh my – is: we’re starting at 2 PM in comfortable walking shoes and shorts; at some point we’re transitioning to little black dresses and heels; we may end up in a different part of the city than we started in; and we have matching tote bags (to carry the aforementioned little black dress and heels, of course) that literally have #ANNASBACHELORETTE screen-printed on them, plus our names. Which… wow. Matching swag is also not something I would’ve picked. At least it’s not t-shirts.]

      • theteenygirl

        I am so worried about my sister/friend planning something that is NOT ME that I took over bachelorette party planning duties. That way, I don’t get anxiety over not knowing what’s happening, and they don’t have to plan anything.

        So we’re doing a potluck picnic in a park and making flower crowns.

        I hope you’ll be able to enjoy your night!!!

        • Alli

          That sounds amazing. Seriously. When I was freaking out about this earlier in the week, my fiance said “I know you, you’d have it in a park if it meant all your friends could afford to come” to which I replied “I would LOVE to have it in a park!!”

          • theteenygirl

            Haha!!! Right!!! I have been the worst at accepting that people are okay spending a reasonable amount of money to spend time with me. Like I texted my sister saying that I wasn’t sure if my idea would work because I have a couple friends who would need to drive and they’d have to pay for parking on the street and I felt bad about that.

        • Anna

          I am sure I will enjoy it – when all’s said and done, Bridesmaid is a really fucking good party planner – and I am THRILLED to not have to be planning it myself (realistically, that would mean not having a bachelorette party so much as a bachelorette “let’s go to this bar that I go to all the time and drink some cocktails”, not because I don’t want some kind of party but because I do not have the bandwidth to plan anything more interesting than that in the leadup to wedding). I’m just uneasy about not knowing what we’ll be doing and feeling like I’ll ruin her fun if I ask.

          It’s pretty likely that I will someday be planning a bachelorette party for her, and I’m torn between responding to this in a reasonable adult way (“she has clearly expressed that she prefers elaborate surprise parties, so let’s throw her an elaborate surprise party!”) and being petty af (“she threw me the party she wanted, so imma throw her the party I want – bring on the fancy cocktails, staying in one location all night, and everything spelled out on the invitation in advance!”). The fortunate part is that I don’t have to decide this now, so by the time she’s eventually getting married the fact that I love her deeply will be at the forefront and I’ll behave accordingly xD

          ETA: Also, potluck picnic in a park with flower crowns sounds like a ton of fun, and has some nice alliteration to boot :-)

    • Amanda

      Is your MOH friends with the other bridesmaids or friends? I think bachelorette stuff gets weird because adults have close friends from so many parts of their lives.

      • Alli

        She’s not, and that could definitely be part of the issue.

    • Jess

      I know that this was super duper stressful and hard. On behalf of someone who sometimes backs out off things that cost too much, THANK YOU for doing that.

      I’m sure it will be tons of fun.

    • zana

      Good on you for taking over from a dictator/maid-of-honor. I’ve been dealing with one of those for the past ~6 months, and it’s really, really difficult to not blame the bride for the rudeness of her friend(s). I really wish she would’ve taken more interest in what was happening.

  • K. is skittish about disqus

    Ugh, so this may be too early to say, but it looks about 75% likely that I won’t get to attend my baby shower next weekend, since it’s either a flight or 8 hour train ride away. :-/ I feel so frivolous being upset about it, but it was the ONE THING I was looking forward to other than having my actual baby. And I irrationally feel like I’m letting all my family and friends down, many of whom will be traveling to the shower…and possibly losing my aunt’s deposits, etc. It just feels awful.

    It’s a medical thing, so can’t be avoided – I was diagnosed with gestational hypertension last week, which basically means my placenta is giving me fluctuating high blood pressure. This puts me at much higher risk for scary-ass pre-eclampsia, as well as low birth weight and other possible complications. Even though my BP has been ideal the whole pregnancy and I’m healthy in all other ways, it’s actually a big deal and one of my doctors has already recommended induction at 37 weeks to mitigate risk (so, less than a month from now).

    Obviously, the shower should be the least of my worries (and it is, but it’s safer to fret about right now than all the Big Stuff, since we’re getting a second opinion on Monday and also getting more lab results too). But how do I broach this? I’m crazy for thinking people will be mad or blame me, right? I just feel like I’m disappointing so many people, even though my husband gets rightfully mad at me for even thinking that way. Just sucks and I’m not sure how to handle it, especially since my mom is already kind of in denial that this is something that could likely happen. Sigh.

    They *may* let me fly since it’s only 1 hour, especially if my vitals look good on Monday. But there are a lot more paths that lead to a no than a yes.

    Oh, and don’t even get me started on what we’re going to do about the fact that my in-law’s visit is still overlapping with all this at the end of the month. Such a clusterfuck. Ugh.

    • Arie

      Anyone who gets mad at you over this is wrong. Full stop.

      • K. is skittish about disqus

        Thank you! I know. Just need to mantra that. And I’m not *really* scared of that at the end of the day because my family members and friends are lovely and awesome, which is why they’re throwing me a lovely and awesome shower. It’s almost easier to imagine them mad than to face their actually inevitable disappointment/sadness though.

        • Arie

          yeah, I get that. I think you’re being very self-aware about how it’s almost easier to put this much anxiety on the shower and not the actual medical stuff, too. Sometimes when things are stressful, I also have to make mantras over how I’ll respond to worse-case scenarios and it helps. Plus, as a bonus, this one can apply to (possibly) having to tell your in-laws that they need to change/shorten/cancel their visit, too. Best wishes!

    • Rose

      I’m so sorry! I think being disappointed is totally understandable! Can you talk to one point person (your aunt?) and let them take care of disseminating most of the information to people? I’d imagine that it would be really hard to have to go over the details again and again with people, and I bet that there are one or two people who would be willing to handle it (if you have groups of guests, like a bunch of family and a bunch of friends, you could find someone in each group to take care of it). And of course everyone will understand! They’ll probably be dissappointed, just like you are, but I can’t imagine getting mad at you.

      • MC

        Ditto to this – let someone else spread the word if you can’t make it, and remember that these people love you and will not be mad at you.

      • K. is skittish about disqus

        Yes, I think my mom and aunt would take care of that for me. I’d be, like, sobbing on the phone with everyone otherwise, ha. It would make people think things are way more dire than they actually are!

    • scw

      I’m so sorry about this! I hope you’re able to travel. if you aren’t, is there a way to still skype in or something? or can you ask some of your nearest and dearest to circle the wagons and come sit with you in your house/somewhere nearby or something to throw an alternate celebration? you definitely deserve to be celebrated if that’s what you want.

      I’m sure I’d feel guilty, too, but I hope I’d have a friend around to tell me to stop. you didn’t do anything wrong! no one will be mad at you. no one reasonable, at least.

    • theteenygirl

      It sucks that you’ll probably have to cancel but only because you’re missing something you were looking forward to.. not because you’re letting anyone down. Your health is WAY more important than deposits. There isn’t a way they could bring the shower to you is there??

      • K. is skittish about disqus

        Thanks for the support! And unfortunately, it’s not really possible to bring the shower to me. My aunt who is throwing it has young kids so driving or flying up would be reeeeeaaally hard, and most people live way closer to them than to me (difference between a 2 hour car ride and a 10+ hour one) so it would be a lot to ask. Skyping in or reschedule for post-baby seems to be the two most realistic options.

        • Ilora

          Even though it’s not your first choice you could probably do both Skyping in for the upcoming shower and plan a meet the baby event for after! My bff lived out of town when she had her first so they had a BabyQ (Meet the Baby BbQ) when they moved back when her daughter was 4months. Mine was planned for when my grandma flew out to visit my little guy last month, he was 10 weeks.
          It totally sucks when life ruins your plans, so go ahead and feel as sad and disappointed as you need too. I totally agree that it’s easier to focus all the anxious feels on this than on the actual medical stuff. No one will be mad at you. “Those who matter don’t mind and those who mind don’t matter”

          Your shower will be wonderful regardless of when it happens!

    • Lisa

      Nobody will be angry at you! Everyone who would have been at your shower knows and loves you and will only want the best for you and baby.

      Is there any chance you’d be able to move the shower closer to you in a few weeks instead of doing the one that’s a plane ride away? You may have fewer people, but perhaps you’d still get to have the same feeling of community that you were looking for at the the other one?

      • K. is skittish about disqus

        It depends on how my health shakes out, I think. I’ll basically be on pre-e watch and likely have to have 1-3 doctor’s appointments per week, with the potential for an induction each time if things don’t stay stable. So canceling TWO showers would be a definite possibility. :p

        Likely, they’d end up moving it to August and we’d have more of a Meet the Baby celebration, which would be fun of course, though not quite the same.

    • Amy March

      If you want to wait until Monday when you know for sure, fine! And then if you can’t go, the hostess just needs to contact everyone and say “her doctor just told her she can’t travel, but the shower is still on and she’ll be sitting in via skype!”

      Anyone annoyed about this is ridiculous. Sad and disappointed, sure, it is disappointing and sad, but it is not something that anyone gets blamed for.

      • K. is skittish about disqus

        Skype is a good idea! My mom already threw that out there as a possibility. We also may reschedule or do another get together in August, but I also don’t want people who have already booked travel/hotel rooms to have to both forfeit their money AND have to pay again for a different event. So we’ll cross the logistics bridge when we come to it, but Skype could definitely work.

        • Eenie

          Make sure someone at the party brings an ipad/tablet and they can pass you around! Fingers crossed for good labs on Monday.

    • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

      It is absolutely reasonable to be upset about this. Also, people who give you a hard time are jerks, and they should prioritize your (and baby’s) health. Can you Skype into the party?

    • Oh no I’m sorry, that’s such a bummer :(.

      I can’t imagine anyone being angry with you for cancelling, and it’s a totally legit thing to be upset about!

      This may not be your/your people’s thing at alllll, but would doing something like still having it and skyping in for some of it be an option?

    • AmandaBee

      You can totally be upset about this – that emotion is valid! If anyone blames you though, they are being a giant jerkface.

      Any chance some folks close to you could do a mini-shower where you live? I would totally be down to throw a last-minute local shower for a situation like this, if it was someone I was close to.

      You can also totally tell in-laws that, if medical stuff starts getting trickier and early induction looks like a possibility, they need to reschedule their trip for after the baby is here and you’re all settled. They should also understand that you need to focus on your health and your baby at that time.

    • laddibugg

      It’s ok to feel bad. I missed my baby shower because baby came two days before (I also had preeclampsia). …and it was right down the street from my house. We were still in the hospital. Not going to lie, it’s been over a year and I still get depressed thinking about it. I cried that entire day, but the nurses were so lovely–one sat with me for an hour while I really bawled.

      Get in your feelings, but don’t think too much about everyone else. You need your strength for you kid :)

      • K. is skittish about disqus

        Thank you! I’m sorry something similar happened to you – and I’m sorry about the pre-e! It’s frightening stuff. My mom had sudden onset pre-e with me, so I’m definitely being extra vigilant. But it definitely does suck, nonetheless.

        And yes, kid is absolutely what matters. :)

    • Jess

      I would totally feel bummed about missing this.

      Hopefully you can set up a “local people rally around me, I am missing this this” brunch or something… :(

      • K. is skittish about disqus

        Yes, my local people will be around and I’m sure be there for me. My mom lives in the same city as me and she’s a rallier by nature. But my baby shower was going to be pretty huge and I’ve maybe got 5 local folks who could hang with me that day, so it’ll be a different experience that I need to accept.

    • idkmybffjill

      Oh man…. doing baby stuff after doing wedding stuff is hard. I’ve still been in default etiquette mode about alot of stuff. I canceled the tentative shower that was going to be thrown for me in texas because I’d be 32 weeks and I’d have to take a plane and it would be HOT. I was so anxious people would be mad and they were SO CHILL.

      No one will be mad at you about this! Lots of ladies miss their baby showers because babies sometimes come early! People are totally cool with things that are medical needs for you and your baby.

      Honestly? I’d also maybe say your in-laws can’t come if it’ll stress you out. Everyone sort of does what the pregnant lady needs.

      YOU GOT THIS GIRL. I’m so sorry you’re going through a scary time, but that’s all you have to think about it, everything else will be fine. All that matters is your little bb and you being healthy.

      • BSM

        Totally agree on the in-laws piece. I think I remember you saying they don’t visit often, so this was Important, but so is your health, mental and physical!

    • Les

      So sorry, this sucks!

  • emmers

    I was rear ended a few weeks ago, and I’m starting to feel mostly normal again. The car’s been repaired, my whiplash is mostly healed, though I’m in physical therapy for some lingering shoulder pain. I was super surprised by how long the whiplash lasted. But as a bonus benefit, I’m learning more about the insurance process, and I think we’ll be getting some pain & suffering money, which will be great as we continue to pay down debt! My husband also has some work bonus money coming soon, so we’ll have a better idea of where we stand next month.

    I also took the dog to an eye doctor– she was a stray and came to us with some eye issues that weren’t going away with regular vet care, so he referred us to a specialist. I was always judgy about people taking pets to special doctors, but it seems like it helped her a lot, and one visit was much cheaper than all the other visits to our regular vet.

    • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

      Glad you’re ok! Car accidents are scary, even when they’re not so bad.

    • Jess

      I’m glad you are mostly ok and otherwise on the mend! car accidents are such an intense thing.

      • emmers

        Thanks! I was surprised at how long the whiplash took to heal. I was literally just laying on the couch (in a specific way to not hurt my neck) for a few days! Thanks for the kind wishes.

  • nosio

    Oooh boy. Today marks 3 months until the wedding! I’m excited, and also trying very hard not to freak out. It feels like there are SO MANY THINGS to do still, and I keep putting them off because thinking about them makes me stressed out, and…I’d rather not be stressed? (Not a very practical coping mechanism, but this is what a lifetime of procrastination has wrought). We also just moved to a new town about an hour south of our old place, and I’m feeling isolated and weird in our new town, and very meh about everything lately. I miss our old neighborhood, I my family and friends in the midwest, and being an adult is just lonely and weird sometimes.

    Thankfully, we’re going to Chicago in a few weeks for my birthday/bridal shower/engagement photo sesh/planning the ceremony with our friend who’s officiating, and I’m really looking forward to that being a fun, relaxing weekend (even if it is full of wedding-related things). And my bridesmaids have (lovingly) bullied me into having a bachelorette party, so we’re planning that for the end of July! I’m trying to focus on how fun it’ll be, instead of stressing about having to miss another weekend of work or paying for another trip.

  • MC

    Husband & I just started watching Sense8 last weekend (we are maybe 5 episodes in) and I was super bummed to hear that Netflix cancelled it yesterday :/ Lots of other terrible things happening, but it just felt like an extra blow to cancel a show with decent LGBTQ and POC representation created by trans folks.

    • StevenPortland

      I love Sense8 and just finished watching the second season. In a way, I’d prefer for it to be canceled now instead of having a mediocre (or worse) third season. Second season was losing much of its “specialness” to me.

      • emmers

        I really liked season I, and I tried season 2 but couldn’t get into it. But season I was great!

      • MC

        Okay, that’s good to know – I’d heard that S2 was better than S1 and I really like S1 so far so I was confused about why they’d cancel it! Hopefully the Wachowskis will get more opportunities to do awesome things.

  • nyc_to_ma

    oh man I am here to complain about the WIC. I brought my dress in for alterations yesterday – and while I assumed it would be expensive, because the place that was recommended is on Newbury Street (the swankiest shopping street in Boston), and they specialize in wedding gowns… I am still shocked. My dress doesn’t need a ton of alterations – bring the straps up, shorten the length, bring it in a bit on the sides – and it is going to cost $800!! EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS.

    Should I be as shocked as I am? Did this cost as much for all of you?

    Ugh. Definitely having one of those “we should have eloped and used my parent’s generous wedding fund as a house down payment” kind of days…

    • Amy March

      That isn’t a shocking amount to me for wedding gown alterations on Newbury Street. I think you can probably find something for less if you are willing to shop around, but I think that’s a pretty standard charge when you’re going to a swanky place for alterations.

    • emmers

      Can you try a different place? I’m in a not expensive area, so YMMV, and my dress didn’t need much in the way of alterations, but it was cheap– $60 for shortening. My mom’s MOB dress needed more (taking in), and I think that was around $120 or something.

      ETA– I found that tailor on yelp.

    • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

      I would absolutely shop that around.

    • Alex K

      That’s about what I got quoted for in Newton. I’d call a less “swanky” shop and see if they can recommend someone in a different price range.

      • Alex K

        Wanted to add- I used a place in Wayland- bridal fashion and alterations (didn’t get my dress there). If you have a car. Check it out.

    • Katharine Parker

      I would consider shopping around, but I would also weigh the time invested in doing so against how much you will end up saving. I have reached a point in wedding planning (a month out) where saving 200 dollars wouldn’t be worth spending an hour on the phone or visiting other tailoring shops. But we all have a distinct level of effort vs money to spend, so know yourself.

      • nyc_to_ma

        Yeah – that’s kind of where I am right now. The wedding is in less than 3 months, so I don’t know if I have the time / energy to find someone else to alter it. Which I feel guilty about, but c’est la vie.

        • emmers

          Sometimes there’s just not enough time and energy. Hang in there– wedding stuff can be rough!

        • Katharine Parker

          It’s hard, too, if, like me, you normally go to your drycleaner for alterations, and they don’t do wedding dresses. It’s tough to know who to go to, and asking people for advice can lead to the expensive place, anyway.

          My mother is convinced all wedding alterations places are scams. I told her my place (which seems totally legit and I like) won’t take credit cards, and she just muttered darkly.

    • lizzers

      I went to a medium fancy place for my wedding dress (allegedly Michelle Obama’s go-to tailor in DC) and was able to negotiate the price (they knocked $100 off the $350 estimate). Not sure if this is a place where you can haggle (or if you feel comfortable doing that), but I share because it saved me some $$$ and I hadn’t previously realized these transactions were open for negotiations. [insert rant about WIC black box pricing frustrations.]

      • Lexipedia

        Where is this place? I need two dresses altered and will have a wedding dress to do in a few months so a good tailor would be awesome. Can you divulge Michelle’s secret?

        • lizzers

          Of course! It’s Cheryl Lofton & Associates (in Shaw). Not to be confused with JC Lofton Tailors (I think there must have been a schism in the Lofton tailoring family at some point??) – I also like JC Lofton, but they don’t do wedding dresses.

          • lamarsh

            I walk by there all the time! I had no idea Michelle Obama’s clothes could be inside. Definitely will take my next tailoring job to them.

          • Lexipedia

            That is actually an 11 minute walk from my house! So much better than all the Virginia/Maryland recs I’ve gotten. Especially since we don’t have a car, and Metro + wedding dress sounds like a nightmare.

          • lizzers

            Yes! I think one of the worst parts of planning a wedding in DC was how everyone assumed we had a car and that I was just being difficult about not wanting to do things/visit vendors in Virginia or Maryland.

          • SLG

            Yup, Cheryl Lofton & Associates was also recommended by the one fashion blogger I’ve ever found who knows how professional clothing actually works in DC (Capitol Hill Style). Best of luck with your dress alterations!

    • jem

      So this seems steep. I’m also in Boston and getting similar alterations done and my quote was $300-400, depending on how she does the train.

    • Lisa

      I would consider shopping around. However, the cost of alterations is going to vary greatly based on the type of material, any beading that is on it, etc. Something that seems simple could easily become more expensive. (For example, if there’s a lace hem, the hem has to be taken up from the waist instead of the bottom, or if there’s beading on the bodice, all beads around any seams must be removed by hand and then reattached.) Try taking the dress to a couple of other alterations shops with good reviews and see if their quotes are in the same ballpark before you decide.

    • laddibugg

      I don’t really know the cost, but alterations aren’t always as simple as they seem. Does your dress have beading, lace or folds? I used to work in a store and people would be shocked at how much suit alterations costs, but there was a lot involved, even just to shorten sleeves.

    • AmandaBee

      Shop around! Ask folks who they used and be willing to look outside of shops if that’s something you’re comfy with. I found my person through word of mouth (she doesn’t advertise or have a physical location) and it was $250 for everything you mentioned plus adding cups to the front.

      ETA: I’m in a low COL place so obviously this varies, but $800 is a lot.

    • Lisa

      I went to one of the nicest places in Denver, and it cost $350 for it to be hemmed, taken in, cups sewn in, and a decent sized bustle (I can’t remember how many points there were, and I know that affects the price).

    • K. is skittish about disqus

      I’m about 95% sure I went to the same place as you on Newbury and yeeeeeeah, super pricey. I had a fairly elaborate hand-sewn dress with appliques and beading though, so I was pretty anxious about making sure the right person with experience in that kind of intricacy knew what they were doing. So for me, it was worth the cost.

      But if I had gone with a simpler dress or one that didn’t need as many alterations, I would have definitely shopped around. Again, assuming this is the same place (or their sister location also on Newbury), you pay for the expertise and also the ambience/experience. But I’m sure there are lots of other great seamstresses throughout Boston who could do your alterations for a bit less.

    • Sarah

      Mine were 600-650 four years ago. She had to bring in some things since I lost weight, and she sewed on this thin belt I bought. Oh, she did remove the small train too. It was more than my dress! This was in NC at a “swankier” place I guess.

    • zana

      Shortening the length can be pricey, ‘cos it’s often based on the number of layers in there.

      I had a 7 point bustle (3 buttons, 7 loops) added & brought-in at the sides at David’s Bridal…cost about $600?

    • Hannah

      I used Zoya Designs in Somerville and it was $150 — maybe try them?!! Sheesh!

    • LP

      That seems soooo expensive to me. Both my mom and I had alterations done, and mine were pretty extensive, and our combined total was $350. I’m about a street size 10 with DDD boobs, and my dress was an XXL because it had to be measured from my biggest point, so she had to take it down about 3 full sizes in the waist, she had to shorten it, and she had to add a way for the straps to snap. And it was all beading and lace. I’m in Cleveland though, and everything seems to be generally cheaper here.

    • RNLindsay

      If you are considering a new tailor – I used this lady in Watertown. Loved her! https://www.yelp.com/biz/bridal-alterations-by-hranush-watertown-2

  • Rose

    I have had the best week! I finished my dissertation last week, and I have done almost no work since, and it’s been amazing. My mom’s been in town, and we’re just been having fun and doing all of the things that make me feel like a whole person again (spending time outside, cooking, going to museums and learning about stuff, eating wonderful meals out).

    I’ve been a student for 23 solid years. It’s so strange not to be any more, but also so good. I’m really looking forward to having a job and all. Anyone else feel this way after graduating?

    • scw

      congrats! what a great feeling! I defended in march and it still feels like THE BEST THING EVER to have free time. I laughed at “spending time outside.” that’s no joke! the other week my husband said to me “you know, you go outside almost every day now.” (my funding package let me work from home so there would seriously be days at a time that I wouldn’t step outside our house.) hahahahahaha.

      • CMT

        Isn’t it awesome to not have homework/always have work that you feel you should be doing?

        • scw

          yes! I still feel that way a little because I’m sending out job applications and stuff (not going the TT route), but it doesn’t compare to the constant stress of a phd program.

        • Rose

          Yes! I have minor dissertation revisions, and revisions on a manuscript, and another one I want to get out, and a bit of lab work to wrap up. . . but I still feel so free! I was on campus on Monday for a friend’s practice talk (she’s in her defense right now!), and it felt like I had had some long luxurious vacation–when really it had just been the weekend. I just feel so light!

      • Rose

        Right? We went for a picnic at a lake that we’ve lived near for six years and never visited. So nice! Glad to hear that the feeling lasts!

    • AmandaBee

      Yay for being a whole person again! I’ve been doing something similar – like, I read a book for fun! I went for a walk! I cooked an actual meal that was NOT a microwave burrito. These are groundbreaking post-dissertation.

    • Alyssa

      I took a break between my undergrad and my master’s, but the feeling I had when I graduated of being able to function in normal society, contribute and get paid was an amazing feeling!

    • zana

      Congrats!
      Being a postdoc felt fairly like an extension of being a senior grad student…but without the dissertation doom cloud. We shall see how the professorly life compares….

  • CMT

    I’m totally dying to hear how toomanybooks’ wedding went. I feel very invested! I hope it went smoothly and without too much last minute stress.

    • penguin

      Haha same! I was scrolling through HH looking for an update :)

    • ssha

      Me too, I’ve been thinking about her all week! @toomanybooks where are you?

      • CMT

        Hopefully enjoying wedded bliss! :)

        • Jess

          I hope so!!

        • ssha

          oohh, I hope so too. That’s more important than updating HH. I suppose. ;)

    • BSM

      I also really want to know what her mom (or was it her sister?) ended up wearing.

  • Emily

    Happy happy hour everyone! The future mister and I are off to NOLA this weekend for a little pre-wedding R & R and boy oh boy do we need it. Between the last day of his internship (today!), wedding stuff/drama, and the sudden though not completely unexpected visit of his depression, it’s been a loooong few weeks.

    But things are looking up! We’re both going to start looking for new jobs when we get back and we just booked our honeymoon to Europe!!! Two weeks, Dublin, Paris, and Italy. It’ll be my first time abroad, and I’ve pretty much been pining to visit Italy since watching Under the Tuscan Sun when I was 15. SO EXCITED.

    • penguin

      I LOVE that movie!! My bff and I watched it a ton of times in high school and it definitely made an impression on me.

  • Kalë

    Had a big fight with the dude last night about emotional labor/household management. It’s frustrating, because it keeps coming up – I think this is our fourth or fifth time arguing about this issue in the past six months. I don’t want to have to ask him to do everything that I want done, and become the de facto “project manager” for keeping our house clean and tidy, but he just doesn’t notice and take care of things the way that I do. I’m not “naturally” cleaner or more attentive to these things, I’m just conditioned as a woman to notice messes/clutter and clean them up!

    • CMT

      I don’t know that this will help anything, but have you seen this amazing comic? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

      • Kalë

        THE COMIC IS WHAT INSPIRED THE FIGHT

        • Kalë

          I wish I was kidding…

        • CMT

          Aww, I’m sorry! I have no words of wisdom, just sympathy.

        • Laura C

          Did he read the comic? How did he respond?

          • Kalë

            He read the comic, and got pretty defensive. He feels like he does a lot around the house already, but begrudgingly admitted that I do more – but because I “notice” more and am just a “cleaner” person. The last time we got into it about e-labor/management, he was like “well if there are things that you want me to do, you have to tell me, because otherwise I won’t know”. Which is part of the problem! BUT THE COMIC!

          • CMT

            I am raging on your behalf. I had an ex who always tried to say that “men aren’t wired to notice things”. If the comic made him defensive, this might not be helpful, but maybe he could read that Metafilter thread on emotional labor? I know there’s a google doc of it out there on the internet.

          • Kalë

            Oooh, that would piss me off. Yeah, I should show him that! That Google doc is what first opened my eyes to emotional labor and how much of it I’ve done in previous relationships. I’m trying to shift the balance, but it can be pretty exhausting. M is a great feminist in a lot of ways, but emotional labor isn’t something he seems to grasp really well. What we settled on last night was that we’ll sit down together today and write a comprehensive chore list, including the emotional and mental labor stuff that I do the bulk of. Then we’ll divide it equally throughout the week. I’m not totally inspired by this idea but I’m crossing my fingers that it’ll work. If anything, it’ll at least make clear just how much “stuff” I’m carrying in my basket at any given time.

          • AP

            It sucks that you’re in this position, but my husband and I did this last Christmas with the Christmas-specific tasks and it helped a lot. I was having a breakdown one day before Christmas about everything that still needed to be done, and he was totally clueless. He had absolutely no idea what it takes for me to manage the schedules for visiting 4 families, contributing to all their meals, buying and wrapping gifts for 40 people…while he basically just showed up. We made this huge list together, and divided it up, and I also cut some things that were lower-priority for me (like sending holiday cards, decorating, etc.) It was really eye-opening for him. Good luck with this!! And solidarity.

          • Kalë

            Glad to hear from the other side! It was actually M’s idea to do this, so props to him. I’m hoping it works as well for us as it did for you.

          • Amy March

            Speaking as a messy person, I genuinely do not see things that need to be done around my house! Like, apparently people clean their microwaves? With some regularity? I solve this with a cleaning lady, but if I were sharing my living space with someone? Totally willing to step up my game while also realizing that I have no cleaning game, and would need something like a chore chart to begin to know what to do!

          • Anna

            But presumably even if you’d need your living-space-sharer to help you figure out what should go on the chart and maybe teach you to do some of the tasks the first time, you wouldn’t believe that it was their responsibility to fill out which things you should be doing when, remind you to do them every week, pick up the slack if you forgot, explain how to do each task every time, etc etc.

          • Amy March

            Eh, probably not when you phrase it that negatively? But I probably would need way more reminders than a neat and tidy person would like, because left to my own devices the dinner dishes are going to sit in the sink for a couple days from time to time because I just don’t care, and I’m never going to do a load of laundry on a weeknight because why?

            ETA: it’s definitely gendered and it’s definitely a problem, I just always feel the need to stick up for the messy since clean people have the weight of moral righteousness on their side :)

          • Anna

            So, the part that bothers me with this reasoning is the “because I just don’t care” (not when you say it, but when fiance says it). If you’re sharing a living space with someone you love and care about, and THEY care if the dinner dishes sit in the sink, the fact that YOU personally do not care is not persuasive. This goes way back to Meg’s marriage-as-mini-socialism thing. Both partners are collectively responsible for both partners’ well-being, which means you sometimes actively devote energy to things you do not personally care about when you know that your partner does.

          • CMT

            Ah! That reminds me of my other favorite internet piece on emotional labor. (I may or may not have collected them after breaking up with the terrible ex.) https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/

          • Kalë

            Oh, I haven’t read this one, but a few paragraphs in and I love it!

          • Anna

            Ooh, I’ve read that one and I love the sentiment of it. Although there’s a little bit of a weird gender-roles “men should cherish their precious wives” thing going on there that I find a tiny bit off-putting. But yeah, it puts this issue in very good context :-)

          • penguin

            Agreed on all counts, there was something that bugged me about that piece that I couldn’t put my finger on, and that was it.

          • Amy March

            That goes both ways though, in a way that I think gets lost a bit because, obviously, being cleaner is the side of “right.” Like, I care about relaxing after a long day, and I care about not having a to do list a mile long, and I care about going for a walk after dinner and not worrying about the dishes. You could just as easily say if my partner cares about me, the fact that they would prefer things tidier is not persuasive.

            Absolutely, people should try to meet each other more than half the way on this, and every part of marriage. I just think sometimes it genuinely is much much much harder to just become someone who sees things to do around the house than neat people credit.

          • Anna

            But at least in our case, my preference for relaxing after a long day, not having a long to-do list, and going for a walk after dinner is just as strong as my fiance’s, so it’s not a case of his preference for those things vs. my preference for tidiness. I’d also argue that he doesn’t really know what his true preference for tidiness is because he’s never had to live with the consequences of his preference for how much time to spend cleaning – he went straight from living with his parents to living in a dorm where the bathrooms were cleaned by staff and meals were in a communal dining hall to living with me, so he’s never had to deal with how gross things get if you only clean as often as he’d like to. So it’s easy for him to say that cleaning isn’t a priority for him, but only because he’s always benefited from cleaning done by others.

          • AmandaBee

            The “cleaning isn’t a priority because he’s never had to deal with the consequences” thing has been the case for us, moreso than it being an actual difference in cleanliness standards. My husband actually does get out of sorts when the house is dirty. I think he just doesn’t always have a solid grasp of how much and how often we have to clean to make a clean house happen, whereas I came into the relationship having lived on my own (and raised by a single parent who expected me to do 50% or more of the housework), so that time/effort was normal for me.

            TBH I think he started to realize how much he benefited from the labor of others when I started working so much that I just couldn’t do it on my own. Husband ended up having to do a lot of it when the alternative was living in filth (although, realistically, there was still a moderate amount of filth to put up with).

          • SLG

            I’m so glad you brought this up, Amy March. For my marriage it goes like this: I have a hard time resting unless the house is picked up. My husband has a hard time picking up the house until he’s rested.

            Neither of those preferences intrinsically has any moral high ground. And most likely, neither of us is going to change our preferences or magically become the other person. But dang, it means I’m often the one picking up the house, because I can’t chill until it’s done. Husband gets the benefit of chilling either way.

            So yeah, the only thing we can do is figure out how to truly love each other in a messy house on a Friday night when we’re both tired. Sometimes husband picks up because he knows it’s important to me, even though it’s not that important to him — and that’s one of the things I love about him. Sometimes I know he’s totally exhausted so I suck it up and put away the piles of laundry by myself. Sometimes I say “Hey, can we pick up real quick? Being the one to do it alone, while you’re over there gaming, is playing into my fears about being the housewifey who cleans up after her husband, and neither of us needs that.” And sometimes I find a neatened-up spot in the house, close the door so I don’t have to see the rest, and read my design blogs in peace. :)

            And I’ve had to learn that he’s not magically going to see the unmade bed or the pile of laundry the way I do. He’s not going to become me! And that’s ok! But over the years, he’s learned that making the bed in the morning makes me really happy, especially when I didn’t ask for it, so that happens more now than it used to.

          • Natalie

            “Hey, can we pick up real quick? Being the one to do it alone, while
            you’re over there gaming, is playing into my fears about being the
            housewifey who cleans up after her husband, and neither of us needs
            that.”

            I need to re-frame my thinking to be like yours. That sounds much more productive than my wailing “I refuse to live like this the rest of my life!!!!!!!”

          • BSM

            And a lot of times I *also* don’t care, per se, but Mother’s Day gifts need to be wrapped, groceries need to be purchased, and dishes have to be cleaned, so why am I the one always* pointing these things out?

            *My husband is actually great at doing at least his fair share of the household labor. I just do the vast majority of the emotional labor/administrative stuff. A work in progress.

          • CMT

            Veering off course here, I know, but microwaving vinegar makes those suckers so much easier to clean! Just microwave a cup of vinegar for a 90 seconds or so and then everything inside just wipes off. Just be careful about inhaling vinegar fumes, which I definitely did the first time I tried it.

          • CP2011

            This is how I clean the microwave too

          • Microwaving just water works too! :)

          • Ashlah

            Yeahhhh, we’ve agreed to buy a new microwave soon because we’ve both decided it’s not worth cleaning after…*mumbles*some number of years without it*mumbles* and a recent butter explosion incident.

            We’re both really bad at the intermittent scrubbing that is required all over the house. At least we’re on the same page, so there’s no resentment? Except my solution is a house cleaner, and his is let’s just get better at it. We’re going to try a chore chart/schedule, and if that doesn’t work? By god, I’m getting a house cleaner.

          • K. is skittish about disqus

            I don’t like talking about this because it always sounds like I’m saying that it’s not ALWAYS gendered (and that’s totally not my point – I know that 99% of the time, it is), but I’m much, much more of a typical Male Partner in these scenarios, where my husband cares a lot more about mess than I do. I literally have to have reminders in my phone and a list of chores on our fridge for me to remember to do things like change our sheets or run the dishwasher. Obviously, I do it, but it’s explicitly for him and not my own comfort. And I’m nervous about that part of my (very long) maternity leave because it will require me to be much more of the household manager, since I won’t be working during that time and it’s not crazy to expect me to pitch in a bit more with domestic duties.

            But thank god neither of us cares about the microwave unless it’s growing creatures.

          • Ilora

            Meh, caring for a baby is a full time thing, just because you’ll be home doesn’t mean you’ve got free time. When my little guy was in his first month and sleeping all the time I was too exhausted myself to get anything done other than eat and nap. Now that he’s 15 weeks he’s turned in to the terrible sleeper I was expecting and will not sleep during the day unless I’m holding him. Generally speaking I accomplish 1-2 household tasks every 2-3 days when I’m alone with baby, everything else waits till my husband is home. The only exception being that we go to the grocery store nearly every day because the cabin fever is real!

            That’s not to say you won’t be able to ever, and every baby is different etc. just don’t get down on yourself if that’s how it works out!

          • Lisa

            We use Trello! It’s still an uneven division of mental labor, because I’m the one that manages the lists, but at least I don’t have to nag as much and he has things spelled out right in front of him on his phone/computer. We have a board for chores and a board for wedding planning. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8d539a30a445616f73dad9707b9761f907eb7168523bc1db6331c1f8f262918b.png https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7aed0cab45035af3d9e99f92759fdcddc3714f9ca1f5b58b552e3983b9769fb0.png

          • AmandaBee

            Ooh, this is good because I’ve been looking for an app. One of the things my husband has pointed out is that a lot of our stuff is “in my head” and we need a way to get it out of my head so he can manage it without me having to ask/remind/etc. Apps are his jam, so maybe we’ll give Trello a shot.

          • zana

            For stuff that needs to get done all the time (i.e., wiping down counters, cleaning the toilet, taking out the trash, etc.) you can also just have a physical list…a chore chart. The same kinda thing you’d have with roommates. I find if it’s right in our faces, on the fridge, all the time, it manages to stay in the forefront of our mind.

          • AmandaBee

            We did this, sort of, although at this point we’re both pretty good at splitting the daily work (this was a major improvement over the past year!

            Where we fall apart is that I’m still the one who remembers and ends up orchestrating all the less-frequent stuff, from weekly tasks like grocery shopping to remembering to pay the bills each month or wash the sheets or balance the budget.

            We started a list for less-frequent stuff but husband isn’t as good at mentally tracking when something was last done (realistically, this is probably gender-based + based on experience). I use an app called Regularly to remind me of a lot of stuff but it can’t share/sync lists. It looks like Trello or something like Wunderlist might be able to do that though.

            My goal is to essentially outsource the reminding part so I’m not, like, at work and trying to also send husband lists of stuff to do with his day off (which is often different than my day off).

          • Les

            We are the same. If someone starts cleaning, the other person starts too. It’s just hard in a little apartment to see your sweetie cleaning while you have fun in the same room. The guilt!

          • Anna

            We use Wunderlist for groceries and wedding-related tasks, can attest that it would work well for something like this. It does recurring reminders reasonably well and shared lists quite effortlessly, although I think each person a list is shared with has to set their own reminders (like, the tasks & deadlines are shared, but the notifications are set separately by each user).

          • AmandaBee

            This is essentially what we need. Shared reminders would be awesome but nothing really seems to have that. We’ve agreed we need a new system so I may try to set up something with husband this weekend.

          • Anna

            Yeah, it makes some sense from an avoiding-abuse perspective that most apps don’t have shared reminders (like, if someone hacks one user’s phone you don’t want them to be able to spam other users with notifications). But it would be a useful feature.

          • AmandaBee

            I didn’t even think about it from that angle. My workplace used a task management app that allowed us to set up email reminders for one another and it was awesome for working on a small team and “assigning” tasks to folks. But I can see how that’s totally different.

          • Em

            Wunderlist is also really great for this – a shared ‘things to do around the house’ / ‘life admin’ list works really well for us, especially because you can assign tasks to various people + then have the satisfaction of having them ticked off.

          • Jane

            I love trello, but it has really reinforced for me how much I’m doing the mental labor for our wedding planning.
            We (but apparently just me IRL) are using Trello for wedding planning. And it should be great because we are living in different states and DIYing a lot, so there’s a lot to keep track of.
            But FH NEVER updates Trello or checks Trello when he can’t remember things. Cue text messages to me “what’s the name of our contact at the venue?” When there are cards for all our vendors and their contact info RIGHT THERE.

            But, as frustrating as it is, at least I have time stamps on everything I do for the wedding. So I can be like, we agreed on this point 4 months ago!!!! And then we don’t go around re-making all the same decisions.

          • AmandaBee

            Oy, asking for info when it’s RIGHT THERE in an easily accessible place is a pet peeve of mine. My husband did this with the calendar – he’d ask when the party was or where when he knew full well that I put that info on our shared google calendar. Eventually I refused to answer with anything except “it’s on the calendar” or “check the calendar” and he got the point. Now he checks the calendar first. But getting to that point was soooo frustrating.

          • Jane

            I know. Because any single time it’s just easier to tell him.

          • BSM

            OMG, this is my number one pet peeve. When people do this, they’re basically saying your time is less valuable than theirs.

            I trained a woman at work a few years ago and seriously almost lost it with her because she’d constantly ask me questions without checking any of the many documents I’d shared with her that explained things.

          • Lisa

            Just want to commiserate about this. I managed a data system change at the Awful Non-Profit, and one of the things corporate did was give us a standard operating procedures manual, which I updated with org specific details and corporate level changes every couple of weeks. My manager kept getting complaints about how unhelpful I was after the change because I would re-direct all queries from staff to the manual before I would give them a step-by-step walk-through/schedule demonstration time with them. They wanted hand holding, and… ain’t nobody got time for that.

          • Eve

            Ugh, I’m working on this with FH too. Yesterday, our horse had an appointment (which is recurring every six weeks or so, and most importantly, FH MADE the appointment), FH was supposed to go to the barn to oversee since I had to work, and he texted me asking when the appointment was. The appointment reminder card has been on the fridge since the last appointment AND it’s been on the calendar, and you effing made the appointment, and like, I’m at work and can’t help you.

            He figured it out.

          • Lisa

            I don’t know if you’re already doing this, but we divvied out the trello management too, so I’m in charge of the master list and B is in charge of holding sprint meetings and check-ins. We usually have a sprint that lasts two or three weeks, and then we have to give a recap of where we are with everything. We still fall behind, but it means he uses it actively rather than as a passive information source. (And at the very least, if you had the meetings then presumably your partner would move his cards at the end of every sprint so you don’t fall into the trap of doing it for him.) I don’t know if this is helpful, but you have my sympathies. And I would create an auto-response that just says TRELLO and refuse to give more details whenever he asks. Or just repeatedly say, “I can’t remember off the top of my head. Check the board.”

          • Jane

            I think you are using features of Trello beyond where we’ve gotten (I don’t know what sprint meetings are). But we do have projects with various cards.

            We are going to have to come up with better options for how we manage our lives when we actually live in the same household. And we will.

          • Love it!

          • Henri

            An ex of mine and I did this with our chores (the list) and put dollar amounts on it (like, if we “paid” ourselves $8 an hour to do these things), and then looked at not just who was doing what items but how much it added up to. It was . . . eye-opening for him.

          • Jenny

            We did this before our kid was born and it was really great. For both of us. I realized I had forgotten to include a lot of “his chores”. We basically made a giant list of chores ( everything like sweeping/cooking/ budgeting/ present buying/ car maintenance/ tax prep). We included how often things would ideally get done, and how often the had to get done. It helped us both appreciate that we were never going to be able to do our “ideal”, it totaled something like 20 hours a week of work. We talked about outsourcing, but can’t afford that right now on a regular basis. But figured out where to compromise, and I think accepted what mess we can live with (we pick up and dust far less often than is probably good) and what we won’t (we do dishes every night- no dish washer; and take out the trash 2-3 times a week).

          • Natalie

            Two nights ago as I was simultaneously cooking dinner for us and our visiting houseguest and doing dishes from everyone’s breakfast and his lunch, our dog came inside after having rolled in something gross (poop? dead squirrel? who knows?). I found my husband lounging on our bed reading for fun, and asked him to bathe the dog. He said he still had work to do and didn’t have time. WHILE HE WAS FUN READING. Guess who bathed the dog and washed the dishes after dinner? Yeah, not my husband. I was rage-scrubbing that dog.

          • Lisa

            Are you f-ing kidding me? There would be words.

          • Natalie

            Oh, there were. After our houseguest had left, so I could yell good and properly at him. He still maintains he was in the right, and I still want to strangle him.

          • Jess

            I have SO. MANY. WORDS.

          • Jess

            what. NO. DID YOU POINT OUT THAT HE WAS FUN READING?! Raging on your behalf.

          • Hannah

            My fiancé got defensive too! He was like “I don’t like the implication that this is a problem that all men have, and that all women take care of this stuff.” I had to set aside my fuming and say, “ok, maybe it’s not every couple, but **it is us** so how can we work on it??”

      • Lisa

        I was just going to post that. Definitely on the radar this week.

      • AmandaBee

        Ah, I saw this and meant to send it to my husband because I think it would sink in better than me having a meltdown in front of the litterboxes every few weeks, but there I forgot.

        Sending it to him now so we can discuss, wish me luck :-/

      • Eh

        I should show that to my husband!

      • Katelyn

        The part of the comic I identified with most was the clearing of the table. That is exactly how I am – a chain-reaction cleaner. He’s even commented on it before how I don’t focus on just one area of cleaning, that I bounce all over the place. It’s more efficient!! But he doesn’t see it that way, and is very focused on discrete results at one time.

        Because of this though, even if we magically spend as much time doing housework, I inevitably am at least twice as efficient because I’m not picking up one thing, walking across the condo to put it away, walking back, picking up another thing, etc…

        He has his list of things he does, and he is very good at remembering to do those things as well as a handful of things I suggest, although there’s certainly a line at which he feels I’m nagging/bossing which never ends well when those words are brought up. I’m proud of the progress we’ve made and I feel like every time we do a big cleaning, it gets a little bit better.

        …. It also helps that he LOVES our Dyson and enthusiastically runs around the house vacuuming anything he can….

    • Alex K

      I think most people have this argument over and over. My husband and I had this conversations SO MANY times. But the last 6 months have been so much better (not perfect but so much better). Keep up the good fight! It gets better.

      • savannnah

        My partner is good at admitting this is an issue for him and we talk about why and how he was brought up but the action on the other side of this convo never seems to materialize.

      • MC

        Also chiming in to say that Husband and I have had discussions/arguments around emotional labor for years as well, and I do notice it’s getting better! One thing that I do w/r/t emotional labor is to say aloud what I’m doing – “I’m going to e-mail these pictures to your mom,” “I’m going to send a group text to see if anyone wants to hike with us,” etc. I realize this is more emotional labor BUT I think it helps since so much of emotional labor is “invisible” to men because they were not socialized to recognize it. Now Husband recognizes it and will even take initiative on some things without me asking.

        • rg223

          This is key for me and my husband – it really helps both of us acknowledge the emotional labor the other person is doing (because my husband does some stuff and it definitely sometimes doesn’t register with me).

          • Alex K

            Yeah I think for us spelling out what we were doing was really helpful. Also my husband decided he needed external help assessing whether stuff needed to be done (laundry, wipe the counters, whatever) so he set up an alert on his phone everyday that said “what can I do around the house today?” And he would find something to do. I don’t think he uses the alert anymore but it was really great to see him take a look around and realize that the towels could be thrown in the wash.

          • zana

            Oh man, husband gave me that one: “I don’t wash the kitchen towels, because I don’t know when they need to be washed.” If you’re doing laundry, they need to be washed. Same goes for the bathroom hand towels + rug and bedroom sheets. You don’t even need to check them. Just wash them every time.

          • Arie

            hahaha that discussion happens in my house and always baffles me. I see him examining hand towels/sheets/rugs and am always like, “what are you looking for? If you can visibly see something on that, it’s already way past due to be washed.”

          • zana

            What happens if you wash towels that have only been used twice? No major consequences!

          • Natalie

            We have a little basket in the laundry room where we (OK, mostly just I) put towels when they definitely need to be washed. We use kitchen towels and cloth napkins in place of paper towels/napkins and tend to be messy in the kitchen, so we cycle through them pretty quickly. Whenever colors are being washed, we both dump whatever towels are in the basket into the washer. It’s a pretty good system. And I never have to tell him that the kitchen towels need to be washed.

          • MC

            Yep – the other great thing about this is that it reminds us to express gratitude for what the other person is doing, which helps me feel like the work I am doing, even if part of it is disproportionately divided along gender lines, is appreciated.

          • Lisa

            We have an appreciation song! It’s obnoxious, but we still love it.
            “I appreciate you! And all the things that you do! And I know you appreciate me too! Do-de-do-do-do-da-do!”

          • ssha

            I love this hahaha

          • Jess

            I’ve said this here before, but we are in the same habit of obnoxiously (to others) saying the thing we did and thanking the other person for doing it.

            It… helps.

          • Les

            Same!

        • Les

          I do this too! When I do a chore, I recap it for him. ‘Today I cleaned the toilet and vacuumed!’ He doesn’t love it, but I think it’s necessary. I was leaning towards thinking I did more work than him… until he started adopting my recap strategy ‘I took out the trash, the recycling and loaded and unloaded the dishes’ and I’m like OH SNAP, I didn’t even notice…thanks!

          • Ashlah

            I am all for requesting (and providing) acknowledgement when you take on a chore! No one needs to grovel in thanks for basic necessities getting taken care of, but simple appreciation for would-be invisible work is a great thing!

          • Anna

            I am so torn on whether doing this is to my advantage: if I don’t call it out, fiance will periodically insist that I “never” do some certain cleaning task; but when I do call it out (especially if I dare suggest fiance could’ve done that task) he’ll sometimes complain that I deliberately do chores when he’s not around/awake JUST so I can be mad at him for not doing those chores.

            Which, obviously, fuck that so hard, because I would VASTLY prefer that we just divide chores evenly than that I get to “score points” for having done the chores. And I do the chores when he’s out/asleep because that’s when I feel like doing them, and also because he wants to play games/watch TV/etc together when we’re both home and awake.

          • Ashlah

            I am so much more motivated to do chores when I’m home alone. It’s a little weird when I spend my days off being productive around the house and he spends his taking off on a solo adventure, but that’s my choice, so eh. I’m like your husband when we’re together, particularly on weeknights–it’s too easy to just veg on the couch instead of making a decision to clean.

          • Les

            In what world is ‘winning’ = doing more chores?! Everyone hates chores! That’s some bull.

          • zana

            I heard somewhere that someone takes her husband on a tour of the house to show-off all the things done that day, ‘Here, see how clean the toilet is!’

      • AmandaBee

        Yess, this is THE ongoing fight in our household as well. Sometimes it seems easier to just Do the Thing Myself, but I keep telling myself that this ongoing battle will be worth it in the end, especially if/when we have kiddos.

      • anoncleanperson

        To this end I have this comic that was remarkably helpful in framing a discussion between me and my partner: https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

        and this nyt essay that is both laugh out loud hilarious and also I enjoy because the woman is the messy one. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/style/modern-love-making-a-marriage-magically-tidy.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=mini-moth&region=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below&_r=0

        • Henri

          I was just going to post this comic :) I have not yet had the energy to give this to my dude, as his anxiety and depression issues add a whole new spin on these conversations.

    • Natalie

      Ugh. I have had many similar arguments recently. Last night I yelled at my husband about dishes for 20 minutes. It’s ……not good…… for my mental health, for our relationship, for his mental health. He’s genuinely trying to do better, but I’m still shouldering most of the mental labor and daily household tasks. So both of us feel not great: he feels like he’s trying and constantly failing and getting yelled at, and I feel like I’m STILL doing almost all the work. I think I need to find a way to not be angry about it, and to not make every time I do a ton of dishes an existential crisis about how I’m going to be cleaning up after him for the rest of our lives. I don’t know how to get there, though.

      • Kalë

        Yuuup. Seriously, this is the exact situation we were in last night. He felt attacked and defensive, because he felt like he had been legit trying to take care of more stuff since our LAST fight about it… and I was frustrated at still doing more than my fair share, and exhausted at having to have the fight AGAIN. Especially since we are getting married next year, it’s really hard not to expound the issue into rage/resignation of “this is my life forever”. Sooo much solidarity.

        • Ashlah

          Ooh yeah, the “Aren’t you grateful I’m trying, it’s not fair that you’re still upset” argument. Ugh.

          • Natalie

            UGH. Right along with the “I did dishes that one night last week, and unloaded the dishwasher yesterday, so I should get a cookie.”

        • Anna

          Yeah, after not having had this fight for at least months, it has come up twice in the last three weeks, and I think it’s because our impending nuptials make it all seem SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.

        • Essssss

          “Especially since we are getting married next year…” So, I feel this is an underacknowledged part of engagement. My husband and I fought more during the 9 months we were engaged than our entire 5 years together. There is such a strange pressure sometimes of, “this is my life forever,” that made it hard for me to just respond constructively to moments instead of seeing things as evidence for conclusions I’d already made about him and our relationship. No solutions, we don’t have EL down pat and I wish he would do more dishes, but post-engagement I think we’ve actually been able to make more progress, and do it more civilly. Good luck!

          • idkmybffjill

            Yes! I totally agree. The stakes feel alot lower. Even with impending baby factored in, cause there’s a general feeling of “oh shit neither of us really know what to do! We’ll figure it out!’

      • AGCourtney

        Ugh, this dynamic is where we’re at. Yes, he has been doing better lately, but that’s a low, low bar to aim for. But he’s been taking on his own projects more instead of me making a list for him, so that’s been helpful. Ages ago I told him that if I had to do the supervisory work (create a list of tasks, ensure that they’re done) then that meant I was doing less of the daily work.

        A funny thing happened this week. I had decided to test something months ago: I was going to wait and see how long it took him to notice the microwave was dirty and clean it. It was getting gross. He uses it all the time, but he just noticed this week. I told him about this and he was like, “How many other social experiments are you running on me?” xDD

        • Kalë

          I’ve done the test before! But mine have always failed… to use your example, I’d leave the microwave, but then the microwave would get so disgusting after weeks (or months) that I then MUST clean it and then it’s so much dirtier and more caked-on than it ever would have been if I’d just cleaned it when I first decided to experiment. Ugh.

          • Lisa

            This is how my husband is with his bathroom. It usually only gets cleaned when I need to use it, too. Thankfully I rarely have a need to go in there.

          • Sarah

            Michael Caine was asked the secret to a happy marriage. I was expecting some erudite answer and he said “separate bathrooms.”

          • Lisa

            We shared one during the year before we married, and our current place just happened to have a second bathroom even though we weren’t looking for one. It has been a godsend.

          • AGCourtney

            Ah, yes. I was able to ignore the sheer disgusting-ness of it. xD

          • Natalie

            Yup, this is me. I’ll wash all my dishes and only my dishes, and see how long he’ll let the mess in the kitchen pile up before doing something about it. I almost always break before he does. Mostly because I need to use the sink to wash produce and it’s full of dishes and then my choice is do his dishes or no salad.

        • Kaitlyn

          I had the opposite problem! So I have terrible eyesight and can’t really see the sink drain in the bathroom without contacts/glasses. I generally brush my teeth before/after I’ve removed this eyesight haha Anyway, the other night at like 11 PM, I notice there was something GROWING around the sink drain. Thoroughly grossed out, I hardcore cleaned it. When I mentioned it to J, he was like, “it’s been like that for a while, you just noticed?” IF YOU NOTICED IT WHY DID YOU NOT CLEAN IT ughhhhh

        • gonzalesbeach

          partner kept leaving empty toilet paper rolls on window ledge in BR instead of taking them out to recycle after switching the roll. So I started building a tower with them

          • zana

            Letting your standards down is one good approach ;)

          • Natalie

            I did that! He didn’t notice…

        • AGCourtney

          UPDATE: he had sorta noticed it was gross but it wasn’t until OUR FIVE-YEAR-OLD said it was gross that he truly noticed how bad it was and decided that maybe he should start cleaning it. xD

      • idkmybffjill

        So, just sharing this because it was a really life changing experience for me – and I hope nothing stressful puts you in this place – but…. STORY OF HOPE.

        We had LOTS of fights about emotional labor while wedding planning. LOTS. Several existential crisis breakdowns on my end that “oh my god this will be my life FOREVER”…. gratefully he really locked it up the last few months of wedding planning and it was super smooth sailing but still.

        After the wedding, idk if it was the post wedding blues or legit depression or what – but i was just TIRED. So tired. Couldn’t be bothered with most things. We were shopping for a house and then I was unexpectedly pregnant (the fatigue OH MY GOD)…. anyway, suddenly my husband was the one shouldering all the emotional and actual labor like I’d always been doing. It was pretty awesome for both of us in the empathy department, like literally life changing. Turns out, what had to happen was me STOPPING EVERYTHING ENTIRELY for him to realize how much I do – and I needed the wake up call of…. crap it sucks to feel super bad when it feels like you can never make up for all the labor your spouse has done for you.

        Not suggesting you just peace out on chores, but also maybe suggesting that? Ours wasn’t intentional but damn did it hit a reset button!

        • Yael

          We’re kind of in that place because we don’t live in the same country anymore so there are some things I literally cannot do, but recently, it’s been me emotionally managing everything in both countries. Part of it is because I am super anxious about how things are in the US and worrying about getting him out of the country, and part of it is because he has (prior to now) unmanaged ADD (altho he’s working on it!), but part of it is because he’s a teacher and it’s exam season, which is the “busiest time of the year.” Which is a legit reason, except that there is always something – grading or lesson planning or whatever and he’s always super busy because he is a teacher. And I finally said, so what? Some things (like renewing his passport or whatever) simply cannot be postponed until the end of the month. He just has to make time for them, like the rest of us who aren’t teachers and don’t have multi-week breaks (and yes, he works on his breaks like every other teacher but he has a lot more flexibility). Of course, this just happened today, so I don’t know what the outcome will be, but I know he heard me.

        • BSM

          This is kind of what’s going on with us right now. I’m pregnant and so tired, and we have this whole huge reno project going where 1) my husband is really particular about all kinds of small details (baseboard height! specialty hinges! the RPM of our range hood!) that I don’t care about and 2) most of the guys working on our job reach out to him with questions and to OK things (it’s like the opposite of wedding planning). We also have a really strange temporary living situation in our living room, so number of household chores has been reduced overall.

          I’ve been managing all the pregnancy/baby stuff so far (doctors appointments, setting up our registry, reading way too much about sleep regression, etc.) while he’s doing… everything else? Things are a little dirtier than I would like (living in a construction zone and all), but I’m just too tired to do anything about it, so whatever.

          It’s really, really nice, and, like you said, it’s been a bit of a reset for us. I’m hoping we can transition into a split that works for us once our living situation stabilizes, but I’m glad it’s happening pre-baby because I think we’re both way more empathetic and appreciative of everything the other does, and it seems like that can only help us as we enter the world of co-parenting.

        • Natalie

          Thanks for the hope:-) I’m kinda expecting this to happen when I get pregnant, because pregnancy exhaustion plus 50+ hour work weeks means I doubt I’ll get to the household chores ever. I’m hoping it works out for us like it did for you. I’m a little afraid it will mean we live in filth, and I’ll be angry about living in filth, instead of him picking up the slack.

          Also, solidarity on the post wedding exhaustion/blues. I definitely felt that. It’s hard.

    • gonzalesbeach

      We’ve had this conversation many many many times too. It seems that with planning for kids though- he sees the impact of EL more somehow. sure, we’ve been socialized this way and those habits are hard to change – but we ‘ve agreed that we don’t want socialize our future children the same way that we were. We can’t say one thing to them and model different behaviours. Do what I say not what I do. This is not to say that we’re now 50/50 on emotional labour and household management! Far from it. But he listens more and does not hold fast to that argue line of ‘I don’t see it’ or ‘you want the house clean and I don’t care’. He agrees and asks more about which things have not been done yet. Baby steps!

    • idkmybffjill

      What about a calendar with recurring events? That way you could set them up together, and then gmail does the emotional labor of calendar management…. also then no one gets to be like, “oh I didn’t realize that needed to be done”.

      • Jess

        We have a “cleaning day” appointment on our GCal. This works.

        • zana

          Or host a monthly game night in your apartment. That works as cleaning motivation, too with a fun celebration after ;)

          • Jess

            Why yes, we *do* have friends over exclusively so that we clean the apartment.

          • penguin

            We do this! We generally have very similar (low) threshholds of cleanliness, but we both care about having a clean house when people come over.

          • Anna

            Ugh yeah the problem for me is fiance is convinced our friends don’t care if our apartment is dirty (he’s a stickler for mess, like he insists there can’t be any papers sitting on the counter when friends are coming over, but somehow thinks nobody will notice a ring of grime in the toilet bowl or dust bunnies in the entranceway?) so is very grumpy about helping me clean the apartment when we’re having people over :-/

          • idkmybffjill

            My husband is that same way! And honestly I fully own that clutter bothers me WAY less. I won’t check my junk mail like… ever maybe if he doesn’t tell me too. But he’ll NEVER clean the toilet. Ever ever ever.

          • Anna

            I think in fiance’s case it 100% comes down to he was expected to declutter his own space for most of his life, but wasn’t really expected to CLEAN it until we moved in together.

          • idkmybffjill

            That totally makes sense. That’s actually pretty true of my growing up too – my mom handled alot of clutter mess, and my chores were like… dust and clean the bathrooms. Now I always notice dust and dirty bathrooms! hahah

            Edit: It was just my mom and I for the majority of the time (every other weekends yo!), so not like my dad just didn’t participate.

          • Alli

            This is 99% of our cleaning the house plan

          • MC

            omg same!

          • idkmybffjill

            GREAT suggestion. Lately we’ve had alot of visitors cause we just moved into a new place, it’s been awesome. We deep clean once a week so nothing gets really bad, but we have legit motivation of COMPANY to do it. This is our first week without hosting plans, but we’ve both kept it up cause we’ve kinda gotten into the swing of it!

      • Eh

        We do this and it helps a lot with the regular stuff that needs to get done (e.g., he cleans the bathroom and does a thorough cleaning of all the floors once a week). And we also have a cleaning check list to remind him of what needs to get done. These don’t help with the ad hoc things that need to get done or see things or use common sense. For example he will sweep the floor but sweep around anything that is on it. Or if there is something beside a laundry basket (that actually fell our when he picked up the laundry basket) he won’t wash it. The other thing that has helped a lot is having a share Wunderlist for groceries so he can add stuff.

    • Hannah

      I mentioned this in a recent happy hour, but I would suggest reading Drop the Ball by Tiffany Dufu! It really helped me frame the resentment I felt around this issue and gave me a starting point for more productive conversations with my fiancé. Solidarity!

    • CMT

      Oh, his week’s Modern Love column is about a messy/neat couple! And the woman is the messy one. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/style/modern-love-making-a-marriage-magically-tidy.html

    • Ugh. This is such a tough one. I do quite a bit more of our daily household management, but the way that we balance that is my husband does significantly more chores. (Also we are both dirty and our house is always gross.) Is this an admirable way to adult? For surrrre isn’t. Do our friends and family judge us? Most definitely. But… We don’t fight about household maintenance which is honestly sort of worth being grody cautionary tales about what happens when you never learn how to use a chore chart.

  • theteenygirl

    So this past Mon-Wed I had to go to the city where my company’s head office is, to attend a mandatory company wide symposium. I had so many issues with it before leaving (namely, a huge lack of information about the schedule, what was included, what wasn’t, what was expected, heck even dress code..) but I put my best face on and rallied and tried to make the most of it. And it turned out to be the WORST. EVENT. EVER.

    There were a couple interesting speakers, which I appreciated, but overall instead of making me inspired and excited to be working for my company, it made me cynical and disillusioned and feel like I want to give up my opportunity for growth. Plus, it was probably the worst planning! I was shocked at how cheap the company was being. Instead of a 1 hr flight, we took a 6 hour train (there, and back!). Instead of booking us modest rooms near the venue, they booked us bunking 2 to a room a 15 minute walk away at a swanky hotel… that had terrible customer service! And they barely fed us the whole time, yet we’re not allowed to expense meals.

    The worst thing, however, was the combination of being constantly starving, crammed in a too small room for two days, forced conversations with coworkers, and almost zero alone time gave horrible anxiety. I cried in front of my bosses twice, and ran out of the event at the end of the night, so upset that my one boss followed me to be like WTF and I had to explain myself multiple times to multiple people. It was awful.

    So I’m just waiting for 4:30 to hit so I can go home and finally get some sleep and restart for the week ahead, hoping that everyone forgets what happened.

    • Angela’s Back

      This sounds like a new circle of hell and I am so sorry :(

      • theteenygirl

        Thanks :( I don’t think I’ve had a chance to like, write down all my frustrations until now and I feel a bit better already just putting this into the world.!

    • rg223

      Ugh, I’m sorry, that is a nightmare. Hope you can get in some self-care this weekend!

      • theteenygirl

        Thanks! I am usually such a positive person at work (been described as a ray of sunshine…) even when I’m not feeling great about work/stress/anxiety/life and I think that really just came crashing down on me this week. 1) because I was so emotionally exhausted I couldn’t muster any more happy and 2) my coworkers/bosses haven’t seen me not happy and bubbly so everyone kind of freaked out.

    • Cellistec

      Been there, minus the crying in front of my boss. I’m sorry you had to go through all that corporate nonsense. Here’s to a quiet weekend and a reset.

    • Arie

      Oh lord, adult coworkers do not share rooms/toilets/showers. Nuh uh, no way, no thank you.

      • theteenygirl

        Right?? When they said that I was like.. k I think I’m at the point now where I don’t want my coworker to see me in my pyjamas? So a lot of the older people paid the difference to have their own room.. but I’m the most entry level and couldn’t afford to pay the difference at this swanky hotel. And it’s just like.. k you’re forcing me to leave my family and you’re not even treating me well??? Gah!!

        • Arie

          Yeah no. Maybe I’m an outlier cause I’ve mostly worked for public entities where there’s rules about everyone having their own room, but I honestly can’t imagine. So many scenarios where that could go horribly wrong, and 100% chance of everyone being uncomfortable no matter what.

          • BSM

            This is a huge pet peeve of mine. Getting your employees their own rooms is just the cost of doing business.

          • theteenygirl

            It was super uncomfortable even though the coworker I shared with is just a couple years apart from me and we’re like work besties.

  • Mim86

    EVERYTHING’S CRAZY. so a few weeks ago I talked about reaching a zen point. It was all good. But, this week, I signed with a new talent agent (one ive been targeting for 2 years) who is not okay with me taking as much time back home for the wedding as i had planned. I live in LA and the wedding is back home in Austin. So im panicking as I disseminate tasks out to friends and family for the wedding, which is in 6 weeks. I will only be in town 1 week before wedding instead of three. We had to cancel our honeymoon and cant get a refund. We have to move my fiance in 4 days after the wedding to LA instead of the 2 weeks we had before. However, my fiance is AMAZING and the one who told me that we should cancel honeymoon and make this happen cause its my dream. He is stepping up awesomely and sending emails, making calls and will be gluing 80% of the paper flowers and finishing most of our DIY stuff.

    And yay, Im with my dream agency too.

  • Karen

    We bought a condo this week. Specifically the one we have been renting for the past two years! We just closed on Wednesday. Unfortunately, this means that since Feb we have made zero progress on planning our wedding. We are at about 4 months away. I have finished 8 out of the 20 centerpeices and about 1/4 of our backdrop so i’m feeling stressed.

    We are planning on getting the invites out this weekend. Honeymoon is fully booked and I renewed my passport (Almost forgot!!!) All my bridesmaids tried on the dresses I ordered for about $20 each on the internet from China and they all fit (with some minor alterations)! Found out that there is a wedding at our venue the friday before so we cannot have the rehearsal then and somebody booked the thursday for the rehearsal before us so our rehearsal will be on the wednesday. I’m kind of upset about this, i thought because we booked really early we would get first pick of the rehearsal day. I would have been fine with Thursday :(

    I am having trouble picking out what jewelry to wear with my wedding dress

    So much is going on!!

    Thanks for listening

    • Amy March

      Do you need to rehearse? And if so does it need to be in the ceremony space? Especially if anyone involved is coming in from out of town and can’t be there on Wednesday, unless you’re doing something really complicated it’s usually a pretty straightforward thing to follow along with.

      • Karen

        That is true, i never really thought about it like that. I guess i was really hoping to get Friday Rehearsal so we could set up the night before and not worry about it the next day. But since Friday got booked we can’t do that anyways.

        It could also be a mental thing, just standing up there…

        • lamarsh

          Just want to add that if you have any/many people coming from out of town, I would strongly consider doing a Friday rehearsal in a different location. I was a bridesmaid in a wedding where we had a Thursday rehearsal dinner for a Saturday night wedding, and it meant taking an extra day off of work, spending an extra night at a hotel, and renting a car for an extra day. I love her and it was all worth it, but it was a lot of money that I spent so we could rehearse a wedding in the specific patch of grass where they would get married when we really could have done that anywhere (or just not rehearsed, the whole thing was pretty standard).

      • Fushigidane

        If seeing the groom isn’t an issue, we did a quick 10 minute rehearsal right before the wedding, probably about an hour before the actual thing. Was still tearing up during the actual ceremony even though we had also done a first look

    • Alex K

      We rehearsed in the lobby of the hotel we stayed in (for free) since we couldn’t go to our venue. Most ceremonies are pretty simple and everyone can find the the aisle/where to stand.

    • Katharine Parker

      This may or may not be helpful, but if making centerpieces is stressful, can you nix half of them and do something way simpler on those tables instead? My florist is doing this–half of the tables will have a larger compote, half will have a trio of julep cups. I could see doing just candles or candles and greenery or some other simplified version of your centerpieces on half the tables, so that you can significantly cut down on the work.

      • Jess

        We did this – we had a couple compotes and some small votives/pillar candles in vases w/ greenery. It looked AMAZING and cut our costs down.

    • another lady

      on the centerpieces – can you throw money at the problem? I ended up hiring a florist / decorator a couple months out from the wedding cause I just. could. not. do. it. and neither could anyone else in my immediate circle. I got some criticism from my family, until I said – “so can you make 20 centerpieces before the wedding?!… no?… me either!” If you can’t swing that, then ask for help from your friends… you could offer to have a ‘craft night’ with some of your friends and have food/wine and make the centerpieces together!

    • KPM

      Just to pile on, doing the rehearsal in our ceremony space was going to be tricky so we just used another space. It did freak me out to have not done it all in the ceremony space so I did insist than we do a walkthrough of just where everyone stands when the wedding party arrived to get ready. The minister wasn’t there and it only took like 10 minutes but it definitely made me feel better.

      • AmandaBee

        We held our rehearsal at a local park because our venue wasn’t available. I was glad we did a rehearsal, but it didn’t need to be in the space since we had a pretty simple setup.

    • Ilora

      We ended up not having a rehearsal at all and it was totally fine! We didn’t have any one person as our officiant, each separate part of our ceremony was read by someone different so I was actually worried about it but due to half of them being from out of town it just didn’t happen. Things ended up going perfectly smoothly even though each separate person got up from their seat, came up to the podium, read their piece, introduced the next person, and sat back down (they were all seated in the first two rows).

  • Lisa

    I’ve missed the last two happy hours, and am so happy to be back! Two weeks ago I submitted a draft of my prospectus, which was huge for me! I’m working on revisions now. Then last week, we had our joint bachelor/ette party in Chicago. It was awesome! We’re in our 30s, so a lot of our friends are married and spread out all over the world. For those reasons, we decided to hold our bachelor party together in a central location and invite partners. It worked really well; our friends all got to know each other, and people could participate in as much or as little as they wanted. We went out for tapas and cocktails on Friday, then went boating on Saturday, followed by pizza and a show at Second City comedy club. Sunday those still in town went to a baseball game and out for Ethiopian. The best part was simply the conversations that ensued, though; no one knew everyone (except for us, of course), so there were always fun things to talk about and connections to be made. And it felt so special knowing that people came from near and far to spend time with us.

    Now we’re in the home stretch of wedding planning. I just spent a small fortune at FiftyFlowers, we sent in our final menu to the caterer, skyped with the DJ yesterday (it’s gonna be awesome!!), and am working on a detailed list of who is responsible for doing what, since we don’t have a planner. Deep breaths.

  • laddibugg

    I don’t know if I am really asking for advice or just want to vent but…

    A few weeks ago my fiance and I went down to Florida to visit his grandparents, and also to introduce our son to him (we live in NJ). I started to talking to Future GMA -in-law about how we will probably do a small and quick wedding soon, and she suggested having in down there (Grandpa is older, on dialysis, and not in the best of health. He can get about, but Jersey is kinda far) At first I gave her a polite “We’ll see”, but after some thought, I don’t think it’s a bad idea. However….I bought it up to my mom and she is very cold about the idea….she pretty much said no. Dad is 110% on board.

    The more I think about it, Florida would be perfect. We were playing to have just family and perhaps 4 or 5 close friends, but one issue was location–no one has a large house or yard. Grandfolks do. Also, it will get us out of the state–sure, Florida is not exotic but it’s different. Plus….not that I would abuse this, but his grandparents might pay for some stuff if we go down there.

    Just never thought I’d consider getting married without my mom there.

    • Lisa

      Would your mother really not come if it was in Florida, or was she just resistant to the idea of travelling when she voiced her disapproval?

      • laddibugg

        I honestly don’t know. I’m going to talk to her again this weekend….and basically tell her we haven’t taken Florida off the table.

        • Lisa

          Unless you already have a tenuous relationship and since you’re offering to cover her expenses, I really can’t think of a reason she’d say no to this. If it’s what you and your fiancé want and it’s what’s best for your family, then I hope she’ll fall in line (even if she grumbles along the way).

    • Amy March

      Would your mom not be invited? Can she not travel? What’s her problem with the idea?

      • laddibugg

        She is in near perfect health–hell she is healthier than me.

        Her main issue is ” I don’t know why he (grandpa) can’t travel. I know ‘someone’ who was on dialysis who traveled extensively’. This is after I told her the man looked significantly different than he did the last time I saw him (about 3 years ago). My father thinks she doesn’t want to shell out money, but that wouldn’t be an issue–I’d take care of her expenses (she watches my son without charging me)

        • Amy March

          Moms also sometimes just have feelings about weddings. She may not want it to feel like “his side” is in control of the day? Not saying you need to cater to that feeling but being aware of the possibility might help smooth things over?

          • scw

            something else to consider: will her parents be involved in the wedding? all four of my grandparents died before our wedding but my husband’s were able to attend and I think that was a little rough on my parents.

        • penguin

          Yeah I wouldn’t rule out good options for you (Florida) based on some cold shoulder from your mom. Hopefully she comes around if you talk to her, I also agree with Amy below.

    • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

      You’re allowed to decide the location of your own wedding. Unless she’s paying every cent, your mom doesn’t actually get to say no. If that’s what you decide to do, she just gets to decide whether she’s going to go.

    • Eenie

      Florida sounds fun! Hope Mom comes around.

  • Laura

    I am leaving in 45 minutes for a 20-day trip to Greece, Turkey, and Georgia to celebrate my 5 year wedding anniversary/successful dissertation defense/husband’s 30th birthday!!

    I have never been so stressed and in need of a vacation. I defended my dissertation last week, wrapped everything up in my lab, am going on vacation, and then have to move across the country five days after getting back. Hey, it all seemed like a good idea at the time…

    • AmandaBee

      That’s a lot! It’ll be crazy but worth it I bet. Have fun on your trip!

    • theteenygirl

      It sounds like such a fun trip!!! Have the best time!!

    • BSM

      That sounds amazing!!! I’d love to hear about your itinerary in Greece (maybe after you get back ?), since we’re considering making that our next big international trip slash first one with a kiddo (so in… 2019, lol. I like to plan.)

      Have a wonderful time!

      • LP

        Also planning Greece in 2019 and would love to hear both of your itineraries!

        • BSM

          You just made me feel so much better about my bananas early-planning :)

          • LP

            It’s overseas, it’s not that early! I’ve started saving already too!

    • Lisa

      Enjoy!!! That sounds like an amazing, once-in-a-lifetime kind of trip!

    • zana

      Ah! Yes!!! Turkey! It’s the best! Kapadokya? Olimpos? Efes? Urfa? Van? (Istanbul is lovely, but the rest of the country is shockingly awesome). And the food! Oh man! Jealous. Enjoy!

      • Cdn icecube

        LOVE Turkey! I’m so jealous right now!

    • Jess

      What a fabulous vacation! Have a blast!

  • jem

    Got a lot of calls this week from friends/family who bought their plane tickets for our Aug wedding and I am feeling so humbled/loved. I really didn’t expect people from my side to make the trip and it feels so good to have them show up for me!

    We’re sending out the invites in the next couple of dayssss yay!

  • Margret

    So apparently it is time for me to lean the fuck in at work and like, I’m ready, but also not. Which is good, because going outside my comfort zone is good, but this is going to be *a lot* for the next while. My PD office is losing an attorney position (not me), and we got 6 weeks notice. That alone is going to double my personal caseload because of how we’re organized and redistributing things. It also means higher stakes/more complex cases (essentially working a level above where I am now, more often than I do now)–I’m expecting the transition to be kind of brutal and am readjusting my expectations for how my workday looks and how long it is. BUT, on top of this, I am the summer intern’s supervisor for the first time. So I’m learning how to manage her, her workload, and mentor her. And I only officially found out about this when she arrived (although it had been hinted at earlier). I’m also now the lead attorney for a new type of probation court that starts next month. AND my boss is going to be out for work and personal travel for most of July, when all this is going down. So I’ll be in charge of the intern and essentially the office caseload and learning this new system all at once. And husband works for a DOD contractor and their summer schedule is INSANE too. And I obviously also have life stuff going on and may need to travel to see a beloved uncle before the cancer is too far along.

    I’m steeling myself up to rock all of this and take a nice vacation sometime(?) after things feel normal. Please send whisky.

    • Katherine

      Feeling this and will share a whiskey with you. We’ve had three attorneys leave in the past three months, and while we are not as busy as a PD’s office, I did find out yesterday that I’m getting about eight new clients. That’s on top of the crazy litigation schedule I have for June and July. I know Memorial Day just happened, but I’m already looking forward to Labor Day.

    • Jess

      I will be pouring myself a whisky tonight, so consider yourself amongst friends.

  • Yet another Meg

    I am finishing up at work today. Impending baby is 2.5 weeks away(ish) and I decided that I am just so done. It’s really weird to think I won’t be back for a year now.

    • Jess

      Happy last-day-of-work-before-baby!

  • 2 weeks until our wedding. Picking up my dress from the tailors in a couple hours. I am feeling pretty calm and good about things, and can’t wait for friends and family to start arriving and get this party started! Very surreal. Anyone else getting married in the next few weeks??

    • lamarsh

      We’re two weeks out too! Just trying to nail down one last RSVP so I can finalize the seating chart and get my place cards printed. After that we will have a bunch of things to do once we get to our wedding destination (getting married in my hometown), but we’ll be mostly done with things we can do from afar.

      • Anna

        Oh man, yeah. We’re also two weeks out, and I just got the RSVP from my father’s girlfriend a couple days ago. Which was both the last one, several days after the RSVP deadline, and also the only one that would significantly change our seating charts since apparently she doesn’t want to sit at the same table as my mother! (My parents are very amicably divorced and have no problem spending time together, we were planning on having a single “parents’ table” with fiance’s parents and my parents and their SOs, but now we have to figure out how to rearrange that xP)

        • lamarsh

          I hear you on the changing the seating chart thing. Right now, everything is set up perfectly. My parents have 24 friends attending the wedding and we have tables of 8, so adding one more couple (the missing ones are friends with my parents) to the mix means rearranging like 3 different tables so it will all work out. I am definitely hoping they just won’t be able to make it.

        • penguin

          Assuming there is room at the table for her, I’d stick to your original plan and just plunk her at the table with your dad. Obviously up to you, your wedding, but I’d be pretty frustrated someone was asking me to make a big change at that point.

          • Anna

            It’s tempting, believe me. That’s also what fiance is advocating. But the rearrangement is also not all that complicated and honestly if she has a problem being at the same table as my mom then I don’t want her to be at that table when I go over to spend time with my mom on my wedding day.

            I had no problem with my dad’s girlfriend before; I’ve met her once and she seemed fine, if sort of bland. But now I’m souring on her a little. I’m also not super inclined to like her because, apart from my mom, my dad has a pretty lousy track record in terms of his taste in women (the woman he was secretly involved with shortly after my parents separated is threatening to sue him for sexual harassment* and take it to the news unless the board of the non-profit he founded, which she is the current director of, extends her contract for five years at a 40% pay bump. Like she’s holding the reputation of this non-profit hostage for a higher salary and extension. She’s also actively driving the organization into the ground.)

            * Most sexual harassment claims are true, of course, but the grounds on which she’s threatening this suit aren’t even plausible: she claims my father was “biased against her” after she “rejected his advances”, despite the fact that she was consensually involved with him and HE eventually ended their relationship, there is a paper trail that demonstrates this, and she’s currently among the highest-paid non-profit executives in her part of the country because if anything my father was biased TOWARD her.

            Obviously this is something I have Feelings about xP

        • Jane

          I dunno, unless you’ve got really good reasons and are close with the bride or groom, you should t expect to have much say in who you sit with.

          If the table request were coming from your mom or dad, for their own comfort, sure. But it just seems like a really weird request to get from the gf without there being some specific beef with your mom to justify it.

          I still think it’s worth accommodating if you can do it without much trouble, for your mom’s sake and because it’s always nice to be able to give people what they want – but I’d sour on her a little too.

          • Anna

            I mean, the request came through my dad. I don’t think I’ve ever been directly in touch with the girlfriend. I think I’d characterize the situation as, my dad’s preference is that his girlfriend not be uncomfortable and accordingly make my mother uncomfortable, and therefore his preference is that we accommodate his girlfriend’s preference because he believes (perhaps correctly) that it will be less awkward for everyone involved.

          • Jane

            Totally. And it makes sense that the request would come through your dad. And, if I were you, I would also be trying to honor that request for everyone’s sake.
            But even if the request came through him, I think if it’s clear that your parents can sit together and be fine, without the girlfriend, and your mom hasn’t done anything to the girlfriend, it seems like a bit much for the girlfriend to request something different. Not like wildly inappropriate, she’s terrible level, just, really?
            I guess I just think that both wedding planning and handling blended/divorced families are hard. If I were the girlfriend, I wouldn’t want to be the one making it harder.

      • Lisa

        We’re still tracking down a handful of RSVPs for our wedding in three weeks. It’s funny how just a few people can totally change the seating chart.

        • lamarsh

          Yes! Ours is perfect right now, and so I am hoping for a “no,” but have a feeling we won’t be that lucky.

  • BSM

    Guys, I *think* they are going to be able to start (and finish!!) putting up drywall in our house next week. We have to pass our plumbing/mechanical inspection this afternoon, and, if that goes well, my husband will have to spend all weekend putting up the insulation, but by the end of next week we’ll have WALLS and possibly even kitchen cabinets next Friday!!!!!!!!!!

    Fingers crossed!!!

    • Les

      Exciting!

      • BSM

        We’ve been living in our living room with a temporary wall up for over a month now, so yeahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

  • Katherine

    So after having to miss the 10k I was planning to run in April, I’m really hoping the rain won’t mess up the course for the 25k I’m planning to run tomorrow! We got an email from the race director today saying that the course was totally snow-free, which is apparently pretty unusual. So glad that summer is finally approaching.

  • wazza

    Hey guys, I need some PMS help! Online research has been pretty frustrating: eat well, exercise, sleep… I got that! I’m talking with a doctor now but I was wondering if any of you ladies have things that work for you, home remedies, etc??

    • Amy March

      Steak. I think it’s actually iron that helps, but I love a giant burger. Also a hot water bottle, brandy, and Advil.

      • AmandaBee

        This too – giant burger or steak every month.

      • MC

        Hot water bottle is KEY.

      • Lisa

        +1000 to anything that can be cured with steak and/or a great burger and brandy. I have a corn/bean bag that I microwave in place of a hot water bottle, but it is the best.

        • scw

          HAHA I was just typing “+1000 for red meat”

          • Lisa

            Great minds. ;)

    • lildutchgrrl

      Vitamin supplements. I took a B-complex with iron during college after reading an article about hormonal birth control messing with B6 levels and confirming it with the clinic NP. No one had mentioned it before even though I had started HBC to help the awful periods and PMS. Prenatal vitamins have a helpful mix of things, whether you’re planning a pregnancy or not.

      • lildutchgrrl

        For cramps, which I had intensely before having an endometrial ablation, I recommend both the stick-on heating patches and the wireless TENS unit you can get at the drugstore.

      • Eh

        This is super interesting to me because Diclectin has B6 in it and is used to treat morning sickness, and also because when I was pregnant I took high doses for B2 (in addition to Diclectin) because I had horrible migraines. I am very hormone sensitive so being pregnant was awful.

      • LazyMountain

        Also, B vitamins might also help with hangovers… side benefit?

    • AmandaBee

      You may already be doing this, but hydration is major for me. If I drink a bunch of water, my cramps are little-to-none. If I’m dehydrated I can totally tell by the cramps.

    • Natalie

      Chocolate and milk for cramps. I think the calcium in the milk actually helps with muscle cramps, and the chocolate is comforting and goes well with the milk.

    • scw

      do you track your cycle? I use an app that tracks mine and also a different app called hormone horoscope which I LOVE. it says things like “x hormone is low today so you’re extra sensitive to drops in blood sugar, don’t go too long between meals!” it doesn’t make my symptoms go away, of course, but it does make me feel mentally better to know what’s going on with me at that time.

      if you find your pms symptoms are more emotional than physical, you could even do some reading about pmdd.

      hope your doctor is helpful! don’t underestimate the power of tv and mentally checking out, when possible.

    • gonzalesbeach

      raspberry tea for cramps is sometimes helpful

      • scw

        oregano tea too!

    • Cannabis + drinking buckets of water + Ibuprofen + cannabis.

  • BSM

    Also working my way through this NYTimes article, “How to Raise a Feminist Son.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/upshot/how-to-raise-a-feminist-son.html

  • theteenygirl

    So in addition to my venting about the work symposium I was at, I’m hoping someone can give me some work advice. I had to share a room with a coworker for the symposium (which sucked but okay) and the second night she came home after the party (the one I ran out of) and was preeeetttyyy tipsy. We started talking about a profit sharing concept that the president of our company was starting, which got us talking about how we knew we were being underpaid. And I KNOW you’re not supposed to discuss salary but basically, we discovered that despite being hired within months of each other, on the exact same team, doing the exact same work, with the exact same job title… she is being paid $6,000/year less than me (barely a living wage in our city).

    I was hired almost a year ago and was offered a salary I felt was too low. So I negotiated for a couple extra thousand a year and while I still think it’s too low, it’s a good starting salary. I always figured that she took the amount that I was offered, but it turns out that what they offered her was $4,000 less than what they offered me, and then she did not negotiate so it worked out to her making $6k less. For the exact same job. And she has more education than I do.

    Obviously this is not my fight – it’s hers. And I’ve asked her to leave me out of it and not straight up tell them that I told her my salary. But I feel SO GUILTY. She was obviously crushed, since she has been struggling to make ends meet and she is such a hard worker and quick learner. She deserves AT LEAST what I was offered. It’s also made me kind of mad at my boss, who signed both our offers.

    So what do I do now?

    • CMT

      I actually think the “rule” to not discuss salary is a terrible one. Controlling that kind of information how The Man keeps you down!

      • zana

        I’m pretty sure you’re legally allowed to discuss salary, so long as you’re not doing it on company time…

        • theteenygirl

          I’ll have to look into what the legality is in Canada…

        • penguin

          You definitely are allowed to in the US, can’t speak for Canada. Ask a Manager had a thing about that – if your boss says that you can’t discuss salary with your coworkers, that is wrong/illegal.

      • Both the “workers rights” side and “transparency & ethics” side could not agree with this more… But I will say, I’ve never learned what a co-worker was making and had that information improve my overall relationship with my job. (But ultimately, i really do agree with you)

    • Amy March

      You do nothing except be proud of yourself for negotiating for what you are worth.

      • penguin

        I think the most you can do here is to encourage her to negotiate for what she’s worth, and maybe point her towards things like Ask A Manager.

        • CMT

          I really liked the book Women Don’t Ask. Hasn’t been applicable for me so far, because I’m government and salaries are set where they’re set, but it’s a helpful read.

          • theteenygirl

            I’ll look into it! Thanks!

          • Jenny

            Agree. I felt like the chapter about how you can ask for discounts at places like Jiffy Lube etc was eye opening. I was like huh, I knew in some vague way that you could and should ask about salary, but in other life stuff I would have just assumed prices were prices.

        • Alex K

          Also- tell other people you know to negotiate and your story. It never dawned on me in my early twenties to negotiate but a kind friend who was a bit older than me reminded/ helped me to negotiate when I got my 2nd job after college. I’m so grateful that she helped me.

          • theteenygirl

            I agree – I had a friend who is a year older than me tell me that even if the job is a decent salary, to always negotiate. I’m so glad I did ask for a small amount more than they were going to give me, because now I’m about to ask for another small raise and also an extra week vacation, and I feel much more confident.

    • MC

      I agree that sharing salaries is fine and important in reducing wage inequality. I’d say the situation is out of your court now – but if your coworker is going to ask for a raise, you could offer to coach her on negotiating since it sounds like you have more experience than she does with it. Talking to other women about how they negotiate has been super helpful to me!

      • theteenygirl

        Thanks. I haven’t come across wage inequality yet in my career so I was just.. so.. taken aback that our salaries can be so different for the EXACT SAME JOB. I’m going to give her some pointers for sure, but I’m going to be asking for a raise at my review this month and I kind of selfishly don’t want this to impact my chance of getting a raise too. Work politics are so difficult.

    • Arie

      This is what happens when you make coworkers share rooms on a business trip. It’s karma for your company!

      • theteenygirl

        Right? When i read your comment on my other post I was like OH YEAH THAT REMINDS ME!

        • Arie

          aaaahahaha. It’d be so funny if you could sneak that into the conversation with the managers (you can’t, obviously, but for laughs) – I’m imagining you being like “yeah, it’s so weird, we never would have even discovered this if we weren’t SHARING ROOMS LIKE IT WAS SUMMER CAMP”

          • theteenygirl

            Hahahahaha oh man I wish I could tell them that! I had insomnia that night, so I was up til 4:30 and had to get up at 6:30 and all I could think of was how badly I wanted to pull the president of the company aside the next day and told him off!!!!

    • StevenPortland

      I think sharing salary information is a good thing for all coworkers, although I’m sure management prefers to keep that information from circulating. Let her fight the fight, but without the information you shared with her, she likely would never had known about the issue.

    • Yet another Meg

      I think there’s not much you can do now that the information is out there. Maybe stress to the coworker that you really do want to be left out of it. I would be especially careful depending on your company’s policies. I know where I work it’s right in our employment contract that year end bonuses are not to be discussed with coworkers.

  • AGCourtney

    The head of circulation at the college library I work at had mentioned the possibility of working some hours in the summer. She came up to me during my day shift yesterday and asked, “I know you’re homeschooling, so would 20 hours per week be okay? Or is that too many?” And that was WAY more than I was expecting so I rapidly tried to calculate money vs. time in my shock and responded that we could make it work. Depending on how the hours shake out and what HR does, this just might possibly maybe put me up to enough FTE to get benefits???

    My husband had his interview for the assistant manager position at his store on Wednesday. We’re feeling cautiously optimistic!

    Between these two scenarios, I could probably quite the printing press. I’m having a bit of a sunk-cost fallacy about this. Somehow it feels worse having a long-term injury from a job I only worked at for a few months than it would if I worked there longer. But that scar is going to be there no matter what, of course. And most nights it’s really not that bad. It’s quite mindless in the position I’m usually at (not the one I got injured at) and lately I’ve just been memorizing my songs from Pirates of Penzance since no one can hear me over the machine. But I get so tired.

    I mentioned last week that rehearsals were going well but we were about to start dancing, which I hadn’t done in 6 years…yeah, that was rough. It was so frustrating to see the choreographer do something but not be able to process what had just happened and how to get my own feet to do it. It’ll be fine, though. The choreographer told me not to be so hard on myself, haha.

    • Jane

      I’m sure you’re being too hard on yourself about the choreography. It’s been six years. You’ll get back into it.
      Hope everything works out with balancing the different jobs/hours/etc.

    • emmers

      That’s wonderful ! I’m so glad you’re getting more hours!

    • ssha

      Are you in the Pirates of Penzance that’s during Twin Cities Pride? I saw a poster for that yesterday!

      • AGCourtney

        No, I’m in a local production about an hour south of the cities and we open towards the end of July. That’s awesome, though!

  • zana

    One day after bro’s wedding, fellow bridesmaid asks for the $8 I owe her for a bridal shower I was unable to attend, being 2k+ miles away.
    I give up.

    • Jess

      For Real !?

      • zana

        I kept telling myself “I just have to get through this damn wedding.” And then BAM. Day after. I couldn’t make this stuff up if I tried, lol.

        • Jess

          This saga has been amazing, but for your sake, I hope it’s over now.

          • zana

            I technically owe another bridesmaid $7. So. We shall see.

    • Kalë
    • K. is skittish about disqus

      $8? Not a typo? Whaaaaa…?

      Not to make light when every penny counts for some people, but I’m assuming this is a weird pettiness thing and oh god, wow.

      • zana

        not.a.typo. eight.dollars.
        There just aren’t words for the classiness of this group.

        • StevenPortland

          Some people are truly odd about money. One friend used to figure out down to the penny how much each person owed when we had a group dinner. Here, the $8 would bug me as well but hopefully this is something that you can mail her a ten dollar bill and forget that it ever happened. There are plenty of other things to get stressed about.

          • Arie

            With you, but kinda feel like this is one of those “pay exactly $8 in quarters” type scenarios.

          • scw

            or pay with a $10, wait two months, and then ask for the $2 back. kiddingnotkidding

          • Arie

            HA yes. Or pay $7.65 and see if she asks for the rest.

          • zana

            ‘Was considering subtracting the per-person amount from that $8, because she consumed the food & booze, and I did not. With that, I probably owe her nothing.

          • zana

            Eh, you’re not familiar with the backstory. This is just the millionth “there are plenty of other things to get stressed about” and I’m just so very tired of eating sh*t for this wedding.

            The straw that broke the camel’s back. The groom is getting notified. He gets to take care of it.

          • StevenPortland

            I remember how there were a million things that pile up during the planning and totally understand how one becomes the straw to break the camel’s back. Sorry that things like this happen. Hopefully you can look back on this and laugh about the unreasonableness of it all at some later date.

  • lady brett

    the small stuff is so good right now: listening to 7yo read during quiet time, and it fucking blows my mind – kid couldn’t do his alphabet a year ago, and he’s reading the hardest library book I threw in his stack; and feeding the baby real food brings me a stupid amount of joy.

    the big stuff is good too: we have a move date and a new apartment (of our own!) lined up (in two months).

    the middle stuff is kind of driving me crazy. especially the combination of our friend/roommate and the moving process. but he’s moving next week. i can do this. (but can my honey, who is twice as frustrated? i guess we’ll see…)

    • A single sarah

      Yay reading! That sounds nearly magical.

      Good luck with the middle.

  • quiet000001

    Is it totally inappropriate to go wedding dress shopping before there is a date and before I’m ready to buy? I’m in a serious relationship but we aren’t quite there yet, but my mom has serious health issues and really wants to do the dress shopping thing with me while she still can. Added complication is I’m losing weight due to medical stuff (this is a good thing, previous medical stuff made me gain weight) so I’m definitely not going to want to actually order something since who knows what size I will be when I need it. So I’d want to like pick a dress and come back to order it?

    I don’t know how to negotiate this combination of stuff without seeming like I’m taking advantage of a dress shop or something. But my mom will be gutted if she doesn’t get to do the dress shopping thing.

    • Amanda

      You can shop for whatever dresses you want, whenever you want. I say do it.

    • Alex K

      There is nothing wrong with saying “thanks for all your help today. I think I need a bit more time before I decide.” Go for it!

      • quiet000001

        Thanks. I just keep feeling vaguely like it’s rude or something. I need some social encouragement. :D

    • Les

      Go and have fun!!

    • Amy March

      I think if you have no intention of buying a dress now, and you are not engaged, it really is not a good thing to do to a dress store. Many of the ones I booked appointments at for my sister wanted to know your wedding date and venue to avoid people coming in just for dress up. If your mom really wants to do it now, I’d go the extra mile and take a weekday day time appointment so you aren’t taking a slot away from someone who might actually result in a sale.

      • Anna

        I mean. It sounds like she may eventually result in a sale? Even if she has no intention of buying day of? I tried on dresses and called to buy one weeks later. If it’s a really tiny shop, yes, a weekday appointment might be courteous if you know you won’t be buying for a while. But people do dress appointments at multiple shops, sometimes, and then there’s at least one place they had an appointment that doesn’t get a sale out of it, and that’s just kind of how it works. I think “mom wants to be there for dress shopping while her health still allows” is a perfectly valid reason to make an appointment now even fully aware that it’ll be some time before you order a dress.

        • quiet000001

          Right, exactly. I’d anticipate ordering/buying from the shop eventually unless there was some issue where I wouldn’t use them no matter what the timing. (Like, you wouldn’t buy a dress from a place that was awful to you in most cases, that’s them losing the sale through their behavior, nothing to do with my timing.)

          I had been planning to wait until we’re actually engaged at least, but my mom out of the blue asked me about dress shopping the other day so I’ve been turning it over in my head because it does feel a bit like something you shouldn’t really do. But on her part it is a completely understandable thing to want to be part of.

      • quiet000001

        I’d make a point if going back to the store to buy the dress, I just don’t see how we could order the right size right now. But if I wait there’s is a good chance my mom won’t be around.

        (Obviously there’s a lot of complicated details I’m leaving out about why things are happening when they are, etc.)

    • scw

      my vote is definitely, definitely to go wedding dress shopping with your mom.

      edited to add: they probably will ask you when your wedding is, so I’d either just lie (I kind of don’t like suggesting this because I am honest to a fault according to some friends and family members) or if you’re not comfortable with that, email or something before to give a heads up.

    • emmers

      Do it! I bought a dress online maybe a year before we got engaged cuz it was the right dress at the right price. No regrets. And in your situation, there are actual mom reasons!

    • If you are concerned this may *the* chance to go dress shopping with your mom, do it now! While I do think it’s particularly important to be respectful of the time of people who work on commission, at the end of the day not every customer is going to buy a dress on the spot. If this is an important experience for you to have together, do it.

      One thing I will note, some stores do rotate inventory out fairly regularly so depending on how long it is before you actually buy you may not want to count on a given dress sticking around. If it’s going to be a couple years it might be worth focusing on broader thing like dress styles/details, or buying something meaningful that isn’t size-dependent like a veil together :)

      • Natalie

        “buying something meaningful that isn’t size-dependent like a veil together :)”

        I think this is a great idea. Shoes to wear on your wedding day would also be great, and while veil style is often influenced by the dress you choose, shoes often aren’t – especially if you’re planning on a full length dress.

      • quiet000001

        Depending on when we actually go, I was thinking to at least try to narrow down what we agree looks best, if it’s far enough in advance I can’t be sure the exact model will still be around.

        Good point about accessories though – I’d forgotten about those entirely and while that isn’t the same commission as a dress, I could easily buy a couple of things now where size isn’t an issue. Pretty sure my head won’t shrink and my feet have been the same size my entire adult life. :D

        It is important to me to shop with her at least once, though. She has a real knack for picking things I would never notice that end up looking fantastic on me.

  • Amanda

    Weird question that I could only ask anonymously on the internet — Anyone else’s partner ever get a little frisky while asleep? I think mine would be horrified if I told him; but he also wakes me up and then doesn’t follow through (because he’s not actually awake)!

    • Sarah E

      Lolz. My partner has definitely initiated sex in his sleep, but only one time. It was pretty funny in retrospect, but if it’s happening more often, it might be a mild sleep disorder, since he’s taking action while still asleep.

      • Amanda

        He’s such an insomniac, so it’s really weird when he is so far asleep that he doesn’t know he’s doing something.

    • Anna

      Heh, fiance has occasionally responded to my gentle attempts at initiation in his sleep, which on one occasion actually led to us having sex with me totally unaware that he was 100% asleep the whole time. Which was weird and made me kinda uncomfortable after the fact, so now I verify that he’s definitely awake before continuing…

    • Jess

      Not really, but we have an agreement that it’s ok to wake each other up in a frisky manner if we want some in the middle of the night/early morning.

  • K

    I need some advice on how to word something. My friend RSVP’d for her, her husband, and their two kids (both under 5). The problem is that her kids aren’t invited. We are inviting family kids, because I have some young cousins I’m close with and can’t imagine not being there – it seemed that family/non-family was a reasonable distinction that we could make. All our friends have little kids, and if they all brought them that would increase the the headcount by 40 kids under 8! I’ve already told my bridesmaid that she couldn’t bring her 3 year old twins. I can’t say no to my bridesmaid, and yes to this other friend!

    Complicating this a bit is that the friend in question and I have a little bit of conflicting personalities – I tend to be a little brusque and she is a little sensitive, and I’ve been thoughtless about her feelings in the past and inadvertently offended her. We’re ok now, but that history is there. I was her bridesmaid, but didn’t ask her to be mine (I’m having a small bridal party, and we’ve grown more distant in the past few years) – I’m sure that probably hurt her feelings, although we haven’t talked about it. And my wedding is on her birthday!

    I’m trying to think of a way to tell her that ‘I love you, but your kids can’t come to the wedding’ that won’t feel like one more slight in a history of slights. Any ideas?

    • penguin

      I feel like APW has some articles on this, but I don’t have links on hand. I’d look at some wording from the “kid-free” wedding articles and modify it to your situation. Your kid line is very clear (family only) so that’s a good thing at least.

    • Sarah E

      Idk, maybe something like “Hey, Friend! We got your RSVP and we’re so excited for you and Husband to attend! Hope you two can kick back and enjoy a night without the kids! Can’t wait for the wedding!” If I’m trying not to be brusque (my default), I try to aim for Just. So. Excited. to keep it friendly.

      • penguin

        I’d even be more clear. That wording makes it sound like you’re hoping they’ll decide not to bring their kids, but the reality is that their kids aren’t invited and aren’t welcome.

        • Sarah E

          I’d hope the friend would reply “Oh, we’re bringing munchkins along, actually!” To which K can reply “Omg, I’m so sorry if the invitation wasn’t clear, but we don’t have space for kids outside the family! If that changes your RSVP, just let me know. I hope you and Hubs can still come!”

          • penguin

            I see what you’re going for, but I would just jump to the second part of your script instead of hoping/depending on your friend having the exact response you expect.

        • Amy March

          Agreed. It’s not a kindness to leave people not knowing what they are supposed to do.

    • Emily

      “Dear X,

      I’m so sorry if my invitation wasn’t clear but unfortunately we are only able to accommodate children who are family members at our wedding. Below please find some information on childcare options for the day of our wedding [a link to our wedding website, local babysitters recommended by venue, some helpful resource if it exists]

      We hope you can make it to celebrate with us!

      K”

      • Emily

        You could also offer to make some calls about childcare for her etc. depending on how involved in this you want to get.

    • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

      WHYYYYYY do people RSVP for people who aren’t invited?

      • Anna

        I had to explain to a friend that the people listed on the envelope are the only people invited when he RSVP’ed for his girlfriend of a year who we’ve met once (our wedding is 55 people and we only gave +1s to live-in partners to avoid having to judge the “seriousness” of individual relationships). He was apologetic but maintained that he’d literally never ever heard of this etiquette and that the “number of guests attending” line on the RSVP card was confusing (I explained that some people were invited as a family…).

        • Sarah E

          This seems like a gender and/or class thing.

          • Anna

            This friend comes from pretty much the exact same upper-middle-class socioeconomic background that I do. I could believe it’s gendered, but knowing this one particular friend – who was kind of like a brother to me as a kid, with all the driving each other crazy that entailed – I also think it was a little bit him covering his ass after kind of hoping he’d get away with it xD

          • Eh

            I would say gendered for sure! Men aren’t exposed to these things as often.

          • scw

            I think also that it’s a “people who haven’t thrown a wedding before” thing. I had a number of people rsvp with guests when they weren’t given +1s and they were all women!

          • Amanda

            To that point, TV doesn’t help. All the shows and movies show people scurrying to find a date, when they are often not invited. Regional and family norms play a part, too.

          • Natalie

            Yes! A friend of my husband’s who had never been to a wedding before had all his ideas about weddings formed by tv/movies. He thought he had to find a date (even though we hadn’t invited a plus one for him) and had all other weird notions about what weddings must be based entirely on Hollywood.

          • Eh

            This happened at a friends wedding (before I was his friend, so I only heard the story afterwards). Another member of our friend’s group was at a bar looking for a date the night before the wedding.

          • Amy March

            Well, if you’ve thrown a wedding before, you’re presumably married, and have no reason to add another +1 because your spouse is invited?

          • Eh

            I had at least one married woman do it. The other people were not married.

          • Eh

            Maybe class… my husband’s cousin invited some kids to her wedding but did not list them on the invitation so it was very confusing and led to many questions from guests with kids when they found out that some kids (the line was nieces and nephews) were invited.

          • E.

            I learned about that rule from reading APW and have since explained it many of my friends, most of them hadn’t heard of it. I think it really should be common knowledge because it’s makes for way more clarity

        • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

          Most dudes I know don’t pay a lot of attention to wedding etiquette. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, or that you can’t google, or ask. My live-in boyfriend was excluded from a wedding invite once, and I still made no assumptions. I took the time to ask the awkward question, and they confirmed that they drew the line at married couples.

      • BSM

        I had a friend RSVP his parents to our wedding, who were not on the invitation and were not invited. People are cray.

        • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

          I count 3 grown-ass adults who contributed to that terrible decision, and should have known better.

    • Jess

      This is essentially what I said in a similar instance (although we did “no kids period” because it would have gotten messy)

      “Hey Friend! We were so happy to receive your RSVP! I wanted to let you know, because we may not have been clear in our invite, that we aren’t going to be able to invite kids that aren’t family to the wedding ceremony or reception. The rehearsal dinner/brunch the next day is fully family friendly, so if you wanted to bring along a sitter (or grandparent!) for the night, we would love to have them come to that event with your awesome kids!

      If this changes your response, I totally understand.”

      • LadyJanee

        This wording is perfect!

    • Yet another Meg

      We had this happen a couple of times when we sent out invitations. I think that sticking with something like “while we love spending time with your kids, we have decided to only invite children related to us due to space constraints.” It makes it less personal that way, because it’s not an issue with her kids, if they aren’t related, they aren’t coming.

  • Katie

    This is my first HH after I quit my job! Working in retail was very hard (physically) and completely not challenging (mentally), and I’m so so so happy to not be doing it anymore. I celebrated by doing LOTS of shopping (being on the other side is nice!), and finally got new jeans, a chic white shirt (at men’s department) and a nice bag. Also, in three days I’m going to the best city on earth a.k.a. Saint Petersburg, Russia, and I can’t be more excited to see my family again!

    Oh, and the “engagement” photos are here. This one is not going on save-the-date, but I just love it! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1468ff3626548ab9537696e6208d92d8a3bb6c09925a7113a3347742b78c078f.jpg

    • Ashlah

      Congrats on getting out of retail!! Love the pic.

      • Katie

        thank you! Honestly, I’m very grateful for this experience, as it was my first American job. I wish I could make it to a year (I only worked for 7 months), but my knees and my brain just couldn’t take it anymore.

  • Katie

    Oh, and some wedding advice needed. If you had a partner who would argue about the planning because “people won’t get it”, “I never saw pizza served at weddings before” and “let’s think about it more” (when I’m totally ready to just make a decision and not think about it twice), how did you respond to that? I guess I’m lucky to have a fiance who actually cares about the wedding and wants to participate in the planning. However, I think he’s very much influenced by his conservative parents and all the weddings he’s been to (that were very traditional and somewhat fancy – nothing we can do on our budget), and I want him to be a team with me, not a puppet of “rituals” and “opinions”. Besides, I’ve researched almost every single details, so all my suggestions are backed up by facts (and cold hard numbers), whereas he just thinks about something and believes we can “make it work” without checking the numbers, and it just pisses!me!off!

    Okay, rant over. But seriously, what should I do?

    • Jess

      Rachel had a great essay called “the people want options” or something similar on this very site that has many great ways to do deal with a “unclear people” situation! It is so common!

      • Katie

        that essay is my Bible! I know for a fact that people won’t be complaining about the ceremony and the food, those things just won’t matter, to a certain point. Seriously, it just makes me so mad to hear “It’s not that I want that, it’s just that I think people won’t get it”

        • penguin

          I’d talk it through with him, and try to be open to ideas. It’s his wedding too, and he may end up agreeing with you or you guys may decide to go in another direction. For this particular example – I’d ask, what people? What would you like to do instead? What do you mean they won’t get it – what if we let everyone know what to expect ahead of time? etc etc

        • Jess

          I have little patience for that, so I would just say “What, specifically, is there to not get?”

          Penguin has a much more compassionate response. So do her thing.

    • zana

      Send him some APW weddings? Exposure to new ideas.

    • StevenPortland

      Can you ask him to provide an alternate idea instead of just saying “I’ve never seen it done before”. For example, if he doesn’t want pizza then he might propose a catered dinner. Then have him provide the cold hard numbers for his option. Tell him that you both can then compare the two options and make a decision.

      • Katie

        that’s what I’ve been doing so far. He said “Okay, will do” and never did anything. Tomorrow we’ll be discussing the wedding (and the budget) with his mom, and I want us to be united, but so far it looks like we’re not that united

    • Amy March

      Well, if your partner doesn’t like the plan, and isn’t ready to decide, then you don’t have a plan and can’t be making the decisions. Whether his opinions are based on just him or his community experience, they are still his. I think you can ask that he come up with a concrete alternative “Hey, I priced out a pizza party in a park. If you want three courses in a restaurant, by all means, please plan that out and let me know what you find. Realistically, if we want to have a wedding we need to book it soon. So you’ll let me know next week what you’ve figured out?”

      • Katie

        that’s exactly what I’m struggling with – I perfectly understand that it’s his wedding, too, and I’m totally up for giving him equal control, but I’m not sure whether he really feels strong about something, or it’s just someone else’s opinion. I’ve been telling him about numbers, but it hasn’t worked so far

        • emmers

          I like Amy’s thing about ” you look into it & let me know what you find next week”. It gives a deadline and puts the onus on him to research- so if he really feels strongly, he can give input.

        • Laura

          show him examples of ways it’s been done. if you think he’s pushing back on it because it can’t be fancy or cool, find times it was both fancy and cool :) we had a wood fired mobile pizza oven food truck come to my parents house and had a bomb rehearsal dinner/welcome party for 65 people the night before our wedding. it could EASILY have been the wedding! could you have it at a pizza restaurant if he’s worried about it having a takeout vibe? could the toppings be more gourmet vs meat lovers? find out what’s bothering him about it, see if you can show him options to address it. and then, if he really isn’t into it – let it go :)

        • p.

          Maybe it’d help to take a step back and you both write down 3 things you feel strongly
          about regarding the wedding, and see if there’s common ground there.

          It sounds like one of the things you feel strongly about is staying within
          budget. But I wonder if he’s hearing “What about pizza?” (which sounds
          like a suggestion) and not “It’s important to me that we stay in
          budget”.

          It also sounds like it may be important to you to feel like there’s
          progress and that decisions are being made, and he doesn’t feel that
          same sense of urgency, and that may be a useful thing to talk about,
          too. What’s holding him back from making these decisions? Is he
          overwhelmed? (My husband gets overwhelmed by too many
          choices/decisions.) Does he need time to consider different options? Is
          he just on his own schedule and not communicating that to you?

        • penguin

          What worked for my fiancé and I was looking at example weddings on APW (there was an article that showed a $5k wedding, a $10k wedding, and a few other price points all on one page). That helped my fiancé see that it would be difficult to have a sit-down dinner for 100 people on a $5,000 total budget, but this is what we could get for $10,000, etc. It helped to introduce him to what weddings cost, since he doesn’t read wedding blogs for fun and I do. I also just sent him a bunch of APW articles to read.

    • rebecca

      I find that when my partner thinks we can’t have something because “it’s too expensive” he really wants it and pouts, but if “it doesn’t really sync with our values” then he’s totally chill and thinks I’m a genius. One of “our values” just happens to be not going into debt for our wedding haha, but somehow reframing it as making choices about the kind of life we’re trying to build as opposed to “money” makes it better.

    • LadyJanee

      When we were planning our wedding and we worried about “what would people think” about a certain thing, we took a step back and considered whether it would actually upset someone if we did whatever it was or if it would just be different to tradition/new to them. Turns out, all of those “what will people think” moments were just about things that were a bit different from tradition but weren’t actually going to be rude/inconsiderate so then we decided we didn’t care what people thought about those things because they mattered to us.
      We also sat down at the start of our planning process and wrote out our wedding motto and the things that were the most important to each of us. It helped to keep that in mind while we were planning. Maybe your husband needs to think about what is important to him (and to his people if that’s a real consideration) and then that can help inform decisions.

    • Jane

      TL;DR – find a way to get him to start doing some of the research you’ve done/ are doing!!
      I think the part of your situation that would drive me the most crazy is when you’ve done research and he hasn’t but thinks he knows what should be reasonable.
      After enough times of FH disagreeing with me about something for months and then finally doing the research and being like, ooooh, we should definitely do it the way you were talking about, we created a “rebuttable presumption that [Jane] is right about the wedding.” So, if he disagrees with me about how something should work or how much it should cost, he has to do the research or be quiet. He’s not great about being quiet, so it gets him to do the research. It hasn’t been perfect but it’s helped.
      Also, my fiancé had much more limited experiences with weddings than I did when we got engaged, so had some pretty traditional ideas of what it “should” look like. I got him to read my copy of the APW book and I think that helped him change his mindset a little.

  • toomanybooks

    Ahhh I can’t believe it’s Happy Hour already! Got married last weekend! Thanks for well-wishes, it was seriously so nice seeing little comment notifications pop up that people were thinking of me. Weather was a close call but I insisted we have the ceremony outdoors and the rain stayed away for the wedding! Will totally share any DC/MD/VA recommendations anyone needs. We had such a fairytale wedding!

    Here… is a photo! I think the other ones I was trying to upload were too big so I might do more when I’m back from my honeymoon at my computer (or just submit my wedding for an APW post because we already have lots of our photos in!)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6469827919947f57986509404e342bf2e7c2394370de0b900c9067beb01ee3e5.jpg

    • scw

      this photo is amazing! congratulations! <3

    • Ashlah

      Congratulations!! That looks/sounds beautiful! Have fun on your honeymoon!

    • BSM

      It looks beautiful – congratulations!!

    • CMT

      Have a fantastic honeymoon!

    • AGCourtney

      Yay! Congratulations.

    • Congratulations! What a beautiful picture!!

    • ssha

      Hooray!!!

      • Rosetstaton

        Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! !mj190d:
        On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $8752 this last four weeks.. Its the most-financialy rewarding I’ve had.. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it
        !mj190d:
        ➽➽
        ➽➽;➽➽ http://GoogleFinancialJobsCash190TopPlusPay$97Hour ★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★:::::!mj190d..,…….

    • Lawyerette510

      YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • S

      What a GORGEOUS ceremony venue!

    • emmers

      I’m so happy for you!

    • LadyJanee

      Congratulations! Your wedding looks stunning! Hope you had a magical day :)

  • E.

    Fiance had shoulder surgery yesterday and is having the expected bouts of pain and nausea, this morning I had my first interview for teaching jobs in Ann Arbor (we’re moving this summer), and I have 1.5 weeks left at school. The interview went fine, but it was really hard because it was a skype interview and their video wasn’t working so I couldn’t see any facial expressions and it was formatted so there was no back and forth, they just asked a question, I answered it, there was silence, then they asked the next one. At the least it was good to get some more practice interviewing, but I guess we’ll see…

    • LadyJanee

      That sounds like such an awkward way to interview people. Good luck!

  • DetectiveMunch

    For those of you whose people or partner’s people live quite far. How do you manage your vacation time? How do you manage your own expectations? Or those of others?

    The past three times I went home to visit friends and family (vacation, christmas, wedding), my partner chose not to join. I was totally fine with it, until this second time when I was completely barraged with questions from every single person: “Where is Vince? Why didn’t he come? He should have come! How rude of him not to come! Why isn’t he here? Where is he? Why isn’t he with you?” It was non-freaking-stop!! In fact, by the end of the weekend, it started affect my own thoughts. I started thinking (with judgment): Why *isn’t* he here?

    • Not Sarah

      For the record, this likely isn’t related to distance. I get this barrage of questions even when I visit my family who are ~2 hours away. It sounds like your family has a different expectation of their partner attachment than you do :)

      • Ashlah

        Yeah, I get this every single holiday when I go to my local family and he goes to his hour-away family. It’s been exactly the same arrangement for 8 years, and I still get “Where is he???”

    • Lawyerette510

      We live in Oakland and my family is in between Austin and San Antonio, TX. In my prior job, I had tons of time off and flexibility as to where I worked from. My husband did not have as much flexibility. So, I went home regularly, mainly because I didn’t have to use any time off to do so. If people asked where he was, I explained that visiting family is wonderful, but it’s not vacation, and we chose to use our vacation time to do vacation things that are restful and relaxing. Similarly, since switching to a new job with much less vacation time and flexibility, I haven’t gone home.

    • Laura

      i think you need to just figure out why (which i’m sure you know) is it lack of time off? bad time of year for him to take the time? easier to afford one ticket? and explain. I mean, as long as he makes an effort when he can, i don’t see that as a huge deal. my husband’s family is across the country, and our dilemma is whether or not we want to set the precedent of him spending his limited time off to go see them solo (because i can’t take time then) when we have seen them every few months anyways. to me, that eats into our ability to take a holiday together and i think his family would then always expect that he visits them every.single.summer. no matter what.

    • RNLindsay

      Similar issues! I’m a nurse and can arrange my schedule to have long weekends without using vacation time. So I can head home for a long weekend day on Thursday, but if my husband was coming it wouldn’t be until he gets out of work at 7p on Friday. So I just say that- if you want more time with me, then he doesn’t come.

    • Eh

      I have 4 (or more) weeks of vacation time, and my husband has two weeks and he works weekends, evenings and most holidays. My family lives 8 hours away and my husband’s family lives an hour away. I need to do something with my vacation time and we have a toddler who I would like to see my family (and his, but they are easier to see), so I take many solo trips and he comes when it’s important for him to come. For example, my husband rearranged his schedule (e.g., no vacation days) so he could go to my friend’s wedding back home, and he will also come with me in the summer when my sister (who lives out west) is visiting. I also attend some of his family events on my own (we have rules about this, #1 is that they have to give us sufficient notice for my husband to book the day off; if it’s a busy time of year or on a stat holiday sometimes he still can’t come). My family is very understanding about it. They understand that my trips would eat up all his vacation time (sometimes I will get the “is A coming with you?” and when I say no they will ask “work?”). My inlaws are less understanding and guilt him if he can’t come or tell him he should have taken a vacation day so they would get more time with him (he usually tries to rearrange his schedule than take vacation days if he can since if he took all of them as vacation days he’d have none).

  • I mentioned last week our drain has issues. Came downstairs last night to find not one, not two, but three massive slugs in the kitchen, one of which was sat on a chopping board. :( :( :( :( We definitely have damp due to the drain issue, and I do not want to deal with indoor slugs ever, so this has taken a leap up the priority board. I just don’t even know where to begin – we’re in a small victorian mid-terrace with cast iron drain pipes, presumably clay underground pipes, and it’s all been concreted together at some point so you can’t even take the grate off the drain. I’m 90% certain this is going to involve ripping up our teeny tiny yard (hopefully not the neighbours’ too) and I’m just wondering, is that something a drain specialist can do? Do I need to hire some kind of concrete ripping up guy as well? How long will it take? Will we be able to use the sinks at all while it’s being done? How bad is it going to smell? Can we afford it? Can we afford not to do it? Is this what we’re going to have to spend our honeymoon budget on instead? Could I learn to love indoor slugs at least until after the wedding? Am I stuck in a catastrophisation spiral and actually this is probably going to be a relatively quick problem to fix, since it’s a common problem with drains the age of ours,which make up about 60% of this city’s drains, and most of our neighbours have literally no outdoor space because they’re in back-to-backs and I should check my yard privilege and count myself lucky that we have enough outdoor space to put pot plants that attract slugs in the first place?

    I never thought I’d miss having a landlord, but oh it was so much easier to have a responsible grown up to pass these problems over to! Being responsible is just paralyzing; screwing up house stuff not only risks the roof over our heads, but also our neighbours’ because it’s a terrace and all the pipes are linked. How did we convince a bank we were ready for this? I feel like three small children in a giant overcoat. Or possibly three large slugs.

    • Jenny

      Ugh! Sorry about the slugs. When I was selling my house, the buyers wanted a lateral line inspection (which was the pipes that connected my house to the main sewer/water) and it came up that they needed to be replaced. My real estate agent recommended a group and it was done within 2 weeks ( I think it was actually like 3 days, 1 day to ripup the basement, 1 to do the work, and 1 to re pour the concrete) so that it could close on time. I wasn’t living there, and it was mostly able to be done by ripping up my basement floor (unfinished) and to my knowledge my yard remained un touched somehow. All this to say, I feel like it is doable by 1 company. If you are by chance in St. Louis, I’m happy to recommend.

      • Sadly, I’m in the UK! You can actually see in the yard where they’ve taken the concrete up around the drains before, so we know the minimum area that’s likely to come up. A friend said it cost about £1000 when he had it done, which is a much nicer number than some of the ones I was imagining! I’m a bit calmer about it now we’ve had some recommendations and I know someone else who’s had it done, but it’s still going to be a headache logistically (won’t be able to use any of the sinks, washing machine or bath/shower while it’s being done).

        • Jenny

          Ooof, yeah that is a bummer. You might ask the contractors how long it would take and see about staying in a hotel for a few of the nights. Good luck!

    • Jo March

      I know what you mean about house owning making you feel like a kid! Top tip: check facebook for groups in your local area. We got all our handypeople that way.

  • quiet000001

    Pride reminded me of another question that’s been floating around in my head: LGBTQIA+ Friendly vendors, if you’re having an event that at least appears heterosexual (and thus is unlikely to be subjected to issues from vendors who turn out to be non-friendly) should you not use a LGBTQIA+ Friendly vendor so as to not book them up when someone who doesn’t have straight/passing privilege might actually NEED them, or should you use them anyway to support their business?

    Not actually applicable to me, but I was just kind of wondering about it. I can see arguments for both approaches.

    (To be clear, I don’t mean giving business to vendors known to be discriminatory. I just mean that someone who advertises as friendly is a known safe vendor, whereas someone who doesn’t say anything on the subject could turn out to have issues if a non-heterosexual passing couple approached them, but a heterosexual passing couple may not ever learn about that because it doesn’t come up.)

    • A single sarah

      I’m in the use/support side. Create the demand. But curious how others approach this.

      • quiet000001

        Yeah, exactly, just wanting to hear thoughts. Maybe some discussion? Figured I’d throw it out there, anyway.

      • Jo March

        As a lesbian couple I really love the idea of opposite gender couples asking the question. The more it becomes unacceptable to be homophobic the better.

        Happily, no one in Italy has had an issue with us so far, my Italian fiancee was concerned. Though they have all been trying to be “cool” with us and asking amusing questions.

    • penguin

      What we did was explicitly ask every vendor if they were LGBT friendly, and only hired them if they are (we are a cis-het couple). I figured it was important to support inclusive vendors. I hadn’t really thought about it as taking away from a couple that might NEED those vendors? I’d still be on the use/support side.

    • PAJane aka Awesome Tits

      If they want to keep their schedule free for an LGBT+ couple, they can always tell you they’re not available, or refer you to someone else, no?

    • Amy March

      No I don’t think this makes any sense at all. Gay friendly vendors are also in the business to make money! Support them with your dollars.

      • quiet000001

        That’s what I thought at first, but then someone I know was all “no, leave them for the people who can’t/won’t pass!” so I figured I’d see what folks here thought. Like, it was presented as a bad thing to even approach them to see if they were free.

  • Rosetstaton

    Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! !mj190d:
    On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $8752 this last four weeks.. Its the most-financialy rewarding I’ve had.. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it
    !mj190d:
    ➽➽
    ➽➽;➽➽ http://GoogleFinancialJobsCash190TopPlusPay$97Hour ★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★:::::!mj190d..,…..

  • AGCourtney

    Not at all. :)